Smann Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I was just courious about where the money is thats been paid in. A far as I can tell all the grow pieces and prizes have been donated including the Nov post. I dont plan on joining just wondering if there is an accounting for all the money, I have yet to see one posted. If this is a PNWMAS sponsored event shouldn't the money be in the treasury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancecobb1 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 i was kinda wondering the same thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_giantti Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Yeah that is the reason why I have not taken part in the grow outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpunk Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The GOC is not sponsored by the forum. I think for this reason exactly. It is really CA2OR's little baby and I am helping out as much as I can. We have records of where all the money has gone or is at. Here is a little rundown of stuff for ya to ease your mind a little. Most of the funds have gone to buying the starting colonies. These are "donated" by Garret, but the donation is just cutting the retail cost off. We still pay what he pays for the colonies. Second place some of the money has gone or will go to is for shipping to a few people that have no possible way of picking up the corals. Also for shipping of prize pieces to us in some cases. And at last we can't forget, shipping to the winners if it is necessary. At this point we are trying to make it easy for all to play so we haven't been charging for shipping and we hope to not have to. This time around we decided to also purchase a fragging kit to minimize losses of the colony as we see the game is going well and it will hopefully continue for a long time to come. The theory is this kit will just follow the started colonies wherever they may be housed. After that is will be used to frag piece that are donated to ensure we always have some nice prizes to give out even if the sponsors can't afford to send out a lot(We are only fragging pieces that the sponsor okayed us to frag for this purpose). We are trying to not run our funds dry either so we have some in the GOC paypal account to cover unforeseen costs such as coral death:eek:. I am guilty of this as my a acan of mine rolled into a prize chalice and stung the chalice pretty good. It is living but as the competition nears its end we may need to purchase another to replace if it isn't up to par just yet. We are trying to do are best with what we have available until we can get the game to be a real success and get the perfect setup for running the game. It's all a learning experience at this point still. As for extra pieces left over after fragging, we are doing various things with those also. We gave a small amount to Dennis as a tank for teachers donation during fragging after we had enough. We have thought about keeping extras around or really nice stuff to use as prizes for later competitions. We have also thought about trading some to stores for more prize donations as a way to alleviate the costs of donating. We are hoping to get enough eventually to buy gift certificates from our donating sponsors so they can get something a little something out of this game for helping us out also. This will also be nice for the winners that need things other then corals. They could pick a GC to a store to get things they need instead of corals, or to be able to pick their own corals even. Who knows!?! We did purchase a few pieces which we are still up in the air about how we want to deal with them. We purchased a few with half out of pocket and half GOC money. This way we can house them in our tanks, frag them for prizes over time, and ensure that the value of prizes is at least double the amount it cost the GOC account to buy it. Last but not least Eric mostly, and I a little, have done quite a bit of running around and leg work for the game, what with picking up, and transporting corals, and preparing and shipping them. Also the constant updating on the forum, and working things out with our sponsors, and hours of working with each other to ensure everything is as perfect as we can make it for every aspect of the game. We haven't actually taken any money for this but I keep telling Eric he should take something for his gas and enormous amount of time he devotes to it. Sorry it was so long but I just wanted you all to know what has been going on with the funds. I actually meant to post something like this to let everyone know but you beat me to it. Hope this helps out:D If you have anymore questions feel free to shoot them out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 As I said I was just courious, I think its important that you guys keep records and possibly provide a link to an accounting of the monies spent. If questions come up (and they will) your records should be up to date. This will not only help the game but will solve any hard feelings that always seem to arise when money is involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpunk Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 As I said I was just courious' date=' I think its important that you guys keep records and possibly provide a link to an accounting of the monies spent. If questions come up (and they will) your records should be up to date. This will not only help the game but will solve any hard feelings that always seem to arise when money is involved[/quote'] The only problem we do run into their is that most if not all sponsors want to keep the wholesale prices under wraps. We do have records of it all though. If push comes to shove we will release accounting references but we may leave some margin on purpose and only disclose the wholesale parts to sponsors to verify it all for everyone. It would be pretty obvious I think if we were "embezzling" from our game(laugh). I understand the concern completely and it is totally valid. After Eric came up with the idea, he told me, then he and I agreed right then that we wanted to simply make the game self sufficient(no money out of our pocket) and make it a win win for all, with all money going back into the game and the sponsors somehow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 I can understand that, however when I read the post for the next game it says Everyone will be receiving and equal frag (between 3 and 5 polyps) of these Generously donated by Garretm85 "Generously donated" isnt the same as Provided at "wholesale" which is what sparked my interest in the first place, all the post from the beginning say everything is being donated Sorry , dont mean to rain on your parade but I'll bet it will come up sooner or later Good luck with your game, have fun Steve The only problem we do run into their is that most if not all sponsors want to keep the wholesale prices under wraps. We do have records of it all though. If push comes to shove we will release accounting references but we may leave some margin on purpose and only disclose the wholesale parts to sponsors to verify it all for everyone. It would be pretty obvious I think if we were "embezzling" from our game(laugh). I understand the concern completely and it is totally valid. After Eric came up with the idea' date=' he told me, then he and I agreed right then that we wanted to simply make the game self sufficient(no money out of our pocket) and make it a win win for all, with all money going back into the game and the sponsors somehow...[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Im just curious on if the form isnt a sponcer then how can you justify charging $5 more to non members? Other than that, I really dont care whare the $ goes! I look at it as Im buying a coral, and for that Im entered into a comp whare I can potentialy winn another coral! If theres $200 left over at the end of the comp and CA2OR and Snowpunk buy something, they shouldnt halfto answer to anyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 We charge the additional $5 in hopes of promoting more actual PNWMAS members....a way to try and assist in paying members of the club. We were doing this competition as a form of helping everyone. Sponsors, members, and the club. As for where the money goes.... This is taken from the Rules and Guidelines page. Found here. http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12899 "5. Entry Fee. Entry fee will be $10 to PNWMAS members and $15 to non PNWMAS members. As stated before, the entry fee will pay for colonies and prize pieces. Any left over entry money and money from the sale of polyps not used in competition, to go right back into the next competitions pieces and colonies as this will only improve the quality and caliber of these pieces and the competition itself. A list of all involved will be posted on the thread for the grow out when it starts so all know who is involved and can get an idea of the money brought in so all is content with that as well. Honesty is going to be key all the way around in this competition. Entry is limited to 2 per household. Entry fee's should be sent via pay pal to PNWGOC@gmail.com. Please include PNWMAS username, Full name, and address for corals to be shipped. " Yes we do ask for donations, but not all are willing to just give some of these corals away. Some have been purchased at wholesale, some on auction, some donated. Our goal here is to provide a few things: A) a fun game or activity for the members of this site. B) nice pieces to start with, which we hope continue to just get better C) a educational experience which should benefit all D) Very nice prize pieces of corals for winners of the competition So far so good. Myself nor Snowpunk have taken a single cent for ourselves, nor a single coral (not even a frag). The left over polyps I have from the initial colony are sitting in my tank gaining polyps waiting for the competition to end to either be sent out as additional prize, donated to a PNWMAS meet for auction or gift, donated to tanks for teachers, or simply given away as a xmas gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I agree with what reef said. I think CA2OR and Snowpunk deserve something in return for doing all of this and if there was some money taken to cover costs and maybe even profit a little I understand. Any of us would like to be rewarded for our hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Sorry Eric, I was wrong. (I told him a few days ago I didn't think it would become an issue at this point but to be sure he kept records) I know some of the prizes are being donated at cost as were the colonies for the competition pieces and knowing a bit about what it takes to put on a contest like this it is really surprising that he is managing to do so with so little funds. From what I understand he is not even taking anything for gas, time, etc. which he really should be entitled to. I do think that when any sponsors are donating pieces at cost rather than outright that this should be noted where it lists the prize. These donations are reduced considerably by not being outright donations (effectively they are not spending anything at all which doesn't really impress me) so the sponsors that do make outright donations should get much more credit for doing so. (Credit should be given where credit is due) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 you know that is a tough one. I tend to lean towards even if they are donated at cost, the sponsor gained nothing from the transaction. So I guess what I am saying is I see it both ways. I do agree that outright donations deserve more credit. But even at cost that is a donation none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 my reward in this has been pretty much exactly what I wanted. I love competitions and bringing out the competitive spirit in people which this is doing, also I love seeing corals grow, which again this allows me to do. But most of all, I am really looking forward to seeing the responses from those winners and their prizes. Which is why we increased the amount of winners for the next round. Plus, I figured by pulling 5 at random will give all a chance to win regardless of your growth results.....kinda an additional reward for playing the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Im just curious on if the form isnt a sponcer then how can you justify charging $5 more to non members? The forum is a sponsor even though it is not an actual PNWMAS event. First they are allowing the competition to be held here and they are also providing(donating) an actual sub forum for it. In return the competition promotes new PNWMAS members by giving them a $5 discount. (Much like the discount a member would get by showing their membership card at an LFS) I suggested this at the beginning of the first competition because I think it is a win win for both the competition and the PNWMAS by doing so and many others agreed. Other than that, I really dont care whare the $ goes! I look at it as Im buying a coral, and for that Im entered into a comp whare I can potentialy winn another coral! If theres $200 left over at the end of the comp and CA2OR and Snowpunk buy something, they shouldnt halfto answer to anyone! I would tend to agree with one exception. That exception being that it has been stated that the proceeds will go into current and future competions. Other than this though everyone knows up front what they are getting for their entry fee. As mentioned they are buying a coral for anywhere from 2 to 5 dollars a polyp and for that purchase they get a chance to win more later. If not for the statement above then it would not matter if all of the proceeds went back into the competition or that those running it took a profit. (It wouldn't make a difference to me either way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 ... But even at cost that is a donation none the less.Yes, but it's no skin off their back if they don't get any new customers for the donation so their interest is much less for doing so. Those donating outright are actually betting that the extra advertising for doing so will bring in enough short and long term customers to make the donation worthwhile so they have a much greater interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 agreed....I will say actual donations are more of an investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePremiumAquarium Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Just to be clear and so that everyone is aware of what was actually dontated and what was actually purchased with competition money at cost. The first colony for this competion was donated by me and not purchased with competition money. All other pieces, including an extra colony for the first competition have been purchased at my wholesale cost. This includes the pieces for this competition Garrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I personally think the competition pieces fall into a little different category. Having them be outright donations would be great however there are much more specific requirements for the competition pieces that make it more difficult to donate since it can't just randomly be chosen. Because of this it is understandable that it may need to be purchased and getting it at cost helps. Additionally your taking extra effort just to help locate a piece that will work so the contribution is increased there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 well that and we have a fairly strict idea of what we are looking for. The idea is to keep getting higher ended and more unique pieces....not the run of the mill. Something nice enough so even if you don't win, you have a nice piece, worth your money, which is kinda like winning anyway. Key word there is "kinda" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClayTheSavageFraser Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 This is ridiculous!! Keep it up guys!! I love the GOC'S if you don't like it don't do it!! If you have questions about the money....don't play!! If you think it's unfair....don't do it! If you don't know where the money goes....don't get the frag! If you don't want a chance for some choice winnings....don't play!! I myself am going to play!! I also love to see people with the initiative to even start something like this! Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 See previous statement regarding competitive spirit....Clay you crack me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 This is ridiculous!! Keep it up guys!! I love the GOC'S if you don't like it don't do it!! If you have questions about the money....don't play!! If you think it's unfair....don't do it! If you don't know where the money goes....don't get the frag! If you don't want a chance for some choice winnings....don't play!! I myself am going to play!! I also love to see people with the initiative to even start something like this! Clay HEAR HEAR!!! ITS LIKE THE LOTTERY, NOT AN INVESTMENT, JUST A GOOD TIME!! (sorry about the caps, the button was pushed and I didnt know and dont want to change it!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Hey, can someone enter twice? How many entrys can each person do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Two entries per household. Just in case there is a husband/wife team that like to compete (CO and brokenzoa ), or if someone has two tanks and wants to see how they grow corals differently. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpunk Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Just to be clear and so that everyone is aware of what was actually dontated and what was actually purchased with competition money at cost. The first colony for this competion was donated by me and not purchased with competition money. All other pieces, including an extra colony for the first competition have been purchased at my wholesale cost. This includes the pieces for this competition Garrett sorry about the miss representation there Garret. This was when I first jumped in a a partner in the comp. On another note even those we have purchased at cost, that doesn't mean there wasn't cost involved for the donator. They have to still use their time and supplies to get the corals ready to go and in some cases meet us to drop them off. Their is a lot that goes on from day to day behind the scenes of this game that even Eric and I didn't expect at first. Thank you all for your support in the game and in us though. I hope you are all enjoying it as much as we are. It seems to be bringing the forum together more also which was another bonus we started to see take place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.