tidalsculpin Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 In addition to ammonia seeding, how about this? What do you think of getting some "crab water"? We could get some from the live crab tank at Fisherman's Market here in Eugene. The water is kept cold there and would definitely harbor coldwater bacteria since the crabs must carry it with them from the ocean. I know that getting someone's water c an help a cycle run it's course. Do you think that would be beneficial to get well adapted strains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 In addition to ammonia seeding, how about this? What do you think of getting some "crab water"? We could get some from the live crab tank at Fisherman's Market here in Eugene. The water is kept cold there and would definitely harbor coldwater bacteria since the crabs must carry it with them from the ocean. I know that getting someone's water c an help a cycle run it's course. Do you think that would be beneficial to get well adapted strains? It might help seed faster....it seems a bit of a hassle though....but, if you're game.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 so, hows the tidepool coming allong? got any rock or livestock in it yet? have you gon scouting for livestock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 hey steve, how deep are you diving to get to your livestock? im going for my scuba cert this summer but would like to collect sooner and get things started with the rock and ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 I have a grey calclaroues substrate in there now plus some sandstone and basalt. No live rock yet. I'll look into that later once my tank is well established maybe even next schoolyear. They say nothing good happens in SW tanks fast. That is especially true for coldwater I believe. Cold water means slower metabolic rates for all organisms big and small. I am still having issues with leaks but it's better than before. The evap rate is very high as I suspected and am trying to devise an inexpensive see- through cover. I want plexi-glass but can't come up with something that won't bow for less than 210 bucks. Still looking. 1/2 inch 48 X 24 sheets are 85 plus shipping or more. Bring Recycling in Eugene has some plexi i believe. Don't know if it can be cleaned up though. I have thought of glass frames, but don't like that for many reasons from sweating to safety issues. If I am sliding the thing off all the time for lessons I don't want it to chip or break. I have a site picked out for livestock. Cape Arago by Coos Bay. The liverock may come from steve w if his offer still stands. I believe he does much of his diving in the Puget Sound area. My cycling is underway despite my leaks. Ammonia levels have risen with frozen shrimp and krill added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 hey steve' date=' how deep are you diving to get to your livestock? im going for my scuba cert this summer but would like to collect sooner and get things started with the rock and ?[/quote'] I collect anywhere from a couple of feet.....to 120 feet......but, most stuff is around 50 ft.....rocks at around 30 ft. I went last week and brought back a few stars and a few more rocks with kelp plants growing on them to give my seahorses a few more hitching posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Steve you need to do a big thread on your cold water tanks...I would love to see them and what it all takes for you to run them. I think I would like to have one some day...and would love to see what you have done in order to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 steve, im trying to plan my tank now and was wondering, since there arnt realy any corals, or the lighting demand for the ones to be had, in your opinion do you think a taller tank vrs a deep tank would look better doing a cold reef? im thinking a 60x36x36 and think the highth would come in handy for the kelp growth and give swimming room for a couple perch or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 steve' date=' im trying to plan my tank now and was wondering, since there arnt realy any corals, or the lighting demand for the ones to be had, in your opinion do you think a taller tank vrs a deep tank would look better doing a cold reef? im thinking a 60x36x36 and think the highth would come in handy for the kelp growth and give swimming room for a couple perch or?[/quote'] The height really doesn't matter....it'a a personal choice. I'd really think twice about having kelp plants though. They do require significant light.....which ...coupled with the higher nutrient level....leads to algae and maintenance. I have my kelp plants for my seahorses in my small tank.....and as a result....that small tank has many times the nuissance algae growth as my bigger...less lit...tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 point well taken! ill avoid the kelp,and maybe go with a 30 tall x 66 long x 36deep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrylics Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 The evap rate is very high as I suspected and am trying to devise an inexpensive see- through cover. I want plexi-glass but can't come up with something that won't bow for less than 210 bucks. Still looking. 1/2 inch 48 X 24 sheets are 85 plus shipping or more. Try to find polycarbonate, maybe 3/8" or 1/2". It doesn't warp out as much as acrylic. FWIW, if you get acrylic, it won't matter much how thick it is - it'll still warp, hence the recommendation for polycarb James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Thanks James on the polycarb idea. I have most leaks down to a minimum. 3 -4 drops a min. I'll try to get them 100 percent dry on Friday when Jay of Hello Guppy has more time to help me out. My overflow is noisy and I am starting to think about building two durso overflow setups. The panworld pum is great though. I think it pumps out of my outlets more evenly too. Cycle report My ammonia levels are still low. I am going to start the ammonium chloride treatment next week. I added 10 g of old reef water today as part of my water change routine. That may help bacteria wise. 2/13/07 5.0 ammonia Nitrites 0 Nitrates trace sg 1.023 Temp 61 F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbrownies Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 remember, a lid to hold in the evap is also going to hold in alot of heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbrownies Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 or hold it out, depending on your chiller situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 One thing to remember is that I am not going to pump a lot of radiant heat into this system. I will may run two 96 watt pcs 36 inches above the tank. Right now it's just the school's t5 lights 8 feet above and the tank looks pretty good. My chiller is 1/2 hp or 6000 btus. There are other factors though. Yes, entropy promotes cooling. Evaporation is an endothermic process. But, there are many other factors as Wikipedia states: "Factors influencing rate of evaporation * Concentration of the substance evaporating in the air. If the air already has a high concentration of the substance evaporating, then the given substance will evaporate more slowly. * Concentration of other substances in the air. If the air is already saturated with other substances, it can have a lower capacity for the substance evaporating. * Flow rate of air. This is in part related to the concentration points above. If fresh air is moving over the substance all the time, then the concentration of the substance in the air is less likely to go up with time, thus encouraging faster evaporation. * Concentration of other substances in the liquid. If the liquid contains other substances (such as salts), it will have a lower capacity for evaporation. This is due to Raoult's law. * Temperature of the substance. If the substance is hotter, then evaporation will be faster. * Inter-molecular forces. The stronger the forces keeping the molecules together in the liquid state the more energy that must be input in order to evaporate them. * Surface Area: A substance which has a larger surface area will evaporate faster due to the fact that there are more surface molecules which are able to escape." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Evaporation is a good thing....it allows you to top off with kalk....which will solve a chronic problem with cold tanks....a low pH. Since there is no photosynthesis going on in the tank, you'll struggle to keep the pH above 7.9. I top off with kalk and can keep the ph above 8.1....but, without kalk, the pH will fall to 7.9 or lower. An auto top off with kalk is easy to set up. Improved gaseous exchange to blow off CO2 is another benefit of increased evaporation. Covering tanks is a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 Covering tanks is a good thing when cleaning chemicals are used and I don't have control over it. Covering tanks is also a good thing when I have a substitute. Sometimes strange things happen in middle schools. I need some barrier to keep out spit wads when I have the old lady sub who can't see working for me!!!(nono) I do plan on using kalk. I don't plan on covering my tank most of the time, but there are times when it is necessary in my classroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Forgot about the special hazards of Jr. High school.....you'll want to try to find a way to get at least a gallon of kalk a day into a system of your size to maintain pH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 I am working on an optimum sump level these next few days. My drips are almost gone. Only one drop a minute on the skimmer. I am going to do some calculations on normal evap rates in my room over the weekend. Once I get a cover I'll try to figure out the ptimal time to have it uncoverd and get on a schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquasereneDiver Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Wow, Joel...just wow. When you first discussed this with me way back when I was blown away at what a great project this was going to be...now I'm completely and totally impressed! I can't wait to help stock it....get that chiller going! We'll be there Thursday with the first batch of critters! As I said at the shop today, it'll be a grab bag depending on what we can find...but I can at least guarantee hermits and snails...and some mud. I've never made a dive there without seeing at least a couple of small sculpin too...so keep your fingers crossed and we'll see what we can come up with for you. Oh..and a quick note on our second trip for you. Karin (the girlfriend/dive buddy) mentioned to me that we ought to be able to get those seastars you're after with a dive in Newport...we're planning it for the end of February/beginning of March. We'll be in touch! Cheers, Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Thanks so much Austin. And welcome to PNWMAS!!!(rock2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquasereneDiver Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Thanks, Joel. So many more letters than my old URS. (Upstate Reef Society) lol Cheers, Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So Austin what is the collection law for Oregon ? from what i can find, you dont need any kind of licence, but you are limited to the # of critters a day, does that sound right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/fishing/regulations_2007.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Here is a small update of the tank. SW is in and there are no leaks. (clap) For now. Chiller has been running since yesterday with cycling a bit on the fast side. 15 min off, 3 min on. Tomorrow Jay of Hello Guppy Maintenance will be helping me tune the PM Bullet2 Skimmer. 1/2 inch plexi arrives tomorrow to for coverage. Friday Austin is dropping off some muck, stray sandstone pieces and some native hermits. He is not collecting from a marine garden or sanctuary. Kids are tracking the Water Quality of the tank and have a basic understanding of the Nitrogen Cycle. They have taken 8 data points now. This week we are now moving into wave action and tides. Next week we will study tide zones and animal adaptions to each zone. Students will do a research project on animals from each zone and will have to define the structures and functions related to the specific microhabitat. Of course, there won't be many animals in here but they will see it come alive a bit next week. most are ready for a manta ray or shark. still some are routing for Pirhanas. Some think I have built this to have a hot tub in my classroom. Pretty chilly at 55 degrees F lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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