Re_Run

tap plastics in tigard

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/for/3279001067.html have some stock in the broklin bridge for sale

have 2 ea. 1" 3/4" and 1/2" $75 each

sorry to hear that you have to take down your tank... But, where your going you will have many options to chose from.. pm sent

Sounds good if it works.. very good read.. Glad to see someone put some thought in to that one.

So the Nem is just a leggs man eh?

can give you the number to the guys I use to move my tanks.. not super spendy and are into sw tanks. (may work for part frags ect) and they have dollies pads and covered van.. they just brought me my 220 (used) all day job.. pm me if you want the number.

get a water proof, pocket version then have your dive bubby hold it above them (hitme)

check out this thread has a lot of good info.. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135137 good. lot of work but fun to do.. you might miss this batch but what they've done once the'll do twice.. and if you work a little at it you'll have some nice new babies..

tank look great.. more pic's please

Yes, thank you Will fix it ASAP Fixed thanks once again

Just waiting to get blasted... (whistle) not sure how many rules I just broke.

+1 ON THIS

THIS NOT MINE AUTHOR IS LEE BIRCHIS COPIED AND PASTED FROM THE FOLLOWING LINK... http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/marine-ich-myths-facts-27003/ best read on this subject I've seen Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) One of the marine aquarist’s devils. So many articles have been written about it. Many are long or are in multiple parts. A lot is known about this marine fish disease because of the many $$$ put into research by the fish farming and aquaculture industries. First discovered (or the better word is 'noticed') in the 1800's and later more understood in the 1900's, we’ve learned about all there is to know about this parasite by the 2000's. I don’t want to write a long post on Marine Ich (MI) but the reader, in as brief of space as possible, should know some truths. The aquarist 'sees something' and then 'guesses' as to what it means and thus starts another round of rumors. It's almost a type of voodoo. It's easier to listen to a rumor of a short absolute statement then it is to read and understand the results of decades of studies and experiments. It is easier to try and take shortcuts with this disease by believing the parasite to be able or capable to do things or die from things it just can't, then it is to do the work to kill it, control it, or prevent it by the means that are known to work. It's time to separate out the rumors from the facts and the subjective observations (which start rumors) from actual scientific studies. In bullet form, here’s what is known: Life and Visuals: 1, The parasite has several ‘stages’ in its life cycle. Cyst in aquarium (usually on substrate, decoration, wall, equipment, or rock) ruptures into free-swimming parasites that burrow into fish, grow into a visible white nodule that is ‘pregnant’ with more parasites, that usually falls off the fish to form a cyst that releases more free-swimming parasites and starts the cycle over again. 2. Only time a human can see this parasite with the naked eye is when it is ‘pregnant’ on the fish and has formed a white nodule. (The white spot is about the size of a grain of table salt or sugar). [NOT ALL WHITE SPOTS MEAN MARINE ICH]. 3. Parasites that have just burrowed into the fish are not visible until 2. 4. Cycle can be completed in less than 7 days, but usually within 24 days BUT can go as long as 72 days. Literature usually quotes ‘average’ number of days. 72 days is rare; 60 days usually encompasses more than 99.9% of the observations and research. 5. This is not the same as the freshwater disease, Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifilis) but it was named after it?! This leads freshwater aquarists to thinking the wrong things about Marine Ich, adding to the myths and rumors. 6. MI is not very sensitive to temperature changes. That is, increasing the temperature does not significantly decrease the life cycle time. This is not true with Freshwater Ich (which is where this rumor of raising the temperature on a marine aquarium with MI comes from). 7. MI can live and reproduce in temperatures as low as 50F and as high as 90F. Thus temperatures that would kill MI would first kill or severely stress most tropical marine fishes. 8. Spots appear then disappear as MI goes through its cycle. Remember 2. This 'disappearing act' is what leads uninformed aquarists to believe the fish are cured. This is the dumbest thing aquarists can possibly think about this parasite! 9. Parasites seem to come in two types: one that only infects gills and one that infects gills and the fish’s body. The tissue of the gills has more exposure to the parasites because a lot of water goes by the gills as the fish ‘breathes’ or ‘swallows.’ Thus, there is an increase in chance the free-swimming parasite will get to the gill. This is one reason why fast breathing (over 90 swallows in one minute) is one of the symptoms of possible infection. 10. The parasite burrows into the fish, below the mucous layer and into the skin or gill itself. (This is why cleaner fish/shrimp can’t get to it in order to remove them from the fish). The second dumbest thing an aquarist can think: I'll get some cleaner fish or cleaner shrimp to remove/eat the parasite. THESE MARINES DO NOT EAT THE MI PARASITE NOR WILL FISH OR SHRIMP REMOVE THE PARASITE FROM THE INFECTED FISHES. Research has shown that the intestinal tracks of cleaner fish and shrimp do not contain MI parasites - - these lifeforms don’t eat MI off of infected fishes. 11. Parasite is transmitted in water (free-swimming and cyst stages), or by falling off of an infected fish (even one that seems healthy because of 9.). This means that water OR fish from another aquarium can carry the disease to another aquarium. 12. The parasite can infect bony fishes, including eels, sharks, and rays, though many species of fish, like Mandarins, have a good resistance to MI, they can still be infected and can harbor or carry the parasite. Invertebrates, snails, crabs, corals, plants, etc. are not affected/infected by MI, but the MI can be in their water, shells, etc. 13. There is no such thing as a dormant stage for MI. The parasite can’t wait around for another host. It MUST go through its cycle. Dr. Burgess recorded that in the cyst stage, he found the longest existing cyst to last for 60 days before releasing the free-swimming parasites. This is rare but possible. This led to the recommendation by many to allow 8 weeks for a fishless tank to be rid of this parasite. 14. INTERESTING FIND: If no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has ‘worn itself out’ and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months. Treatments: 1. Hyposalinity - Using a refractometer, hold salinity at 11ppt to 12ppt until 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. (Best to use salinity, but if you use specific gravity, that equates to roughly 1.008 to 1.009 sp. gr. units). Raise salinity slowly and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Hard to control pH and water quality during treatment. This is the least stressful treatment for the fish. See: A Fish Hyposalinity Treatment 2. Copper treatment - Follow medication recommendations. Can be effective in 2 to 4 weeks of treatment. After treatment, remove all copper and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Copper is a poison to the fish and creates some stress. The fish may stop eating. See end of this post for other things that can go wrong. See: Copper Medications - Good, Bad, and Ugly. 3.. Transfer method - Fish is moved from tank to tank to separate the fish from the cysts that fall off and the free-swimming stages of the parasite. Two hospital tanks are needed to perform this treatment. The fish is stressed by having to keep moving it between these hospital tanks. 4. Only the above 3 known cures fall into this category: Don't require prescriptions; use chemicals that are not carcinogens to humans; and work 100% of the time when diligently peroformed. Other chemicals will kill the MI parasite, but only in special conditions (not good for the fish) or in lab experiments (not using marine fish). Some chemicals will only kill some of the organisms, letting the others escape death to go on to multiply and infect. 5. Not any of the treatments can be done in a display tank with true live rock. Must be done in a hospital tank or quarantine tank. The hyposalinity and the copper treatment would kill invertebrates, live rock, and other non-fish marine life. Substrates and carbonates interfere with a copper treatment. 6. No known ‘reef-safe’ remedies work consistently. Many aquarists think a particular remedy works when in fact the fish acquire an immunity or defense against the parasite. It’s easy for any manufacturer to have an independent study done on the effectiveness of the ‘reef-safe’ remedy but they don’t because. . . 7. Cleaner shrimp and cleaner wrasses are not known to pick these parasites off of fish. (See 10. above). 8. Freshwater dips can kill some of the parasites on/in the fish, but not all of them because many of the parasites are protected by the fish's skin and mucous layer. (See 10. above). 9. No dip can get rid of these parasites because primarily of 10. above. 10. Let aquarium go fishless (without any foreign saltwater additions (e.g., water from LFS system, water from another tank or system -- use only distilled or RO/DI for evaporation and freshly made, uncontaminated salt water for water changes), without contamination from infected tanks, live rock additions, etc.) for at least 8 weeks and the tank will be free of MI. This 'fallow period' has over a 99.9% chance of success. 11. NEVER combine a copper treatment with a hyposalinity treatment. pH is hard to control in a hyposaline solution. If the pH drops, the copper complexed with water carbonates becomes 'free' and raises the copper content the fish is exposed to. The effect is similar to to overdosing with copper. Not worth the risk. Since they both cure Marine Ich, use one or the other and don't put so much stress on the fish (and yourself). Defense and Immunity: 1. The fish’s mucous coating can provide some protection from the parasite. The mucous coating is where some fish immunity develops. 2. When water temperature drops, mucous coating is often reduced or lost in marine fishes, that is why sometimes MI becomes visible on the body of the fish after a sudden drop in temperature. This meant, however, that the disease was present and living in the aquarium, infecting fish without the aquarist having been aware of it. 3. No fish, no matter how good its defense is, can stop being infected. A healthy fish will and can be equally infected as a sick or stressed fish. What happens is the aquarists sees one or more fish with the disease and assumes because none are seen on the other fish in the aquarium that they are 'disease free.' NOT. Aquarists can't always see the parasites. See above top, 2., 3., and 9. All fish in an infected tank require treatment. MI is not and opportunistic pathogen - - It can and does infect healthy, unstressed fishes. 4. A weak, stressed, or sick fish will die sooner than a healthy fish, but is no more likely to get infected than the healthy fish. 5. A fish that survives an attack may develop proteins (also in the mucous coating) that will help fend off the parasite (this is a type of immune response). An immune fish will not get infected. Unfortunately. . .(see 6. below). . . 6. An immune fish doesn’t remain immune. Separated from the disease for months, the once immune fish can become MI infected. 7. Immunization seems to work, but not affordable or likely available to the hobby for many more decades. The immunization materials are hard to make, expensive, and slow to produce. Unfortunately, like it states in 6. above, the immunity is short-lived. Subjective and Non-Subjective Observations, Claims, and Common Myths 1. Tangs seem more susceptible. True. Their mucous coatings are reduced in thickness and composition. They swim up to 25 miles a day in the ocean in search for food so maybe Mother Nature provided them with this as a means of 'escaping' being reinfected by the free-swimming parasites. 2. It goes away on its own. Untrue. Only visible at one stage IF it is on the body or fin of the fish. It’s the life cycle. If it was once seen, then it hasn't gone away -- it's just not visible to the aquarist. 3. It goes away with a ‘reef-safe’ remedy. Untrue. This is one of the biggest and most 'dangerous' of the misrepresentations in the hobby. The aquarist thinks everything is okay when it isn't. What usually has happened is that the parasite has killed the fish it will kill and the rest have developed a resistance or immunity. OR the strain of MI turns to infecting the gills only where the only stage of it can’t be seen by the hobbyist. The parasite is still in the aquarium. 4. It was gone then when a new fish is added, it is there again. Not true. See 3. It wasn’t gone or the new fish brought in the disease with it. A new addition to an aquarium can be the stress which triggers the other fish to reduce their defense or immunity, thus allow the parasite to 'bloom' to the point where the infection is now visible to the aquarist. 5. The fish lived the last outbreak then died during the second or subsequent outbreak. Can be true. The fish had a resistance or immunity that it lost. 6. It was diagnosed as MI spots, then never showed up again. It wasn’t MI or the fish quickly developed an immediate immunity or resistance, or the fish is still infected in the gills. 7. MI can ‘hang around’ almost unnoticed with just a body spot now and then because it often resides just in the gills. True. So ‘it is gone’ after ‘it was here’ is very unlikely. 8. Aquariums always have MI. Untrue. MI can be kept out of an aquarium. Just quarantine all fish and don’t let non-quarantined livestock get into the aquarium. After keeping thousands of marine fishes, my home aquariums have been free of MI since 1970. 9. Fish always have MI. Untrue. In the wild they often show up to 30% infected (or more) but the wild fish survive minor infections. In the tank the parasite can 'bloom.' In the tank the fish can't get away. The combination of bloom and no escape will overcome the fish. In capture and transportation the fish can share the disease and thus many wild caught marine aquarium fishes do have this parasite, but not all. 10. Like 9. a fish can't be made to be totally rid of MI. Untrue. All marine fish can be cured and rid of any MI infection. 11. Just feed the fish well and/or feed it garlic and it will be okay. Untrue. I compare this approach to this one: "Granny has pneumonia. Let's keep her home rather than take her to the hospital. We'll feed her well with chicken soup and vitamins -- and lots of garlic." :looney: Nutrition, foods, garlic, vitamins don't cure an infected fish. An infected fish is sick and is being tortured by the itching and discomfort. Don't let this happen to the fish. Cure it!! 12. A new cure has been discovered. Unlikely. If the aquarist thinks they have found a new cure, then have it researched and independently tested. It's easy and cheap. If it is as good as the above 3 then the professional veterinarians, private and public aquariums, fish farms, and I will use it. The aquarist needs to keep the perspective of how devastating this parasite is not to just the hobby but to the whole fish farming industry. Any new way of 100% treatment will make headlines! 13. If the MI can't always be detected, then why bother with a quarantine procedure? In the confines of a small quarantine and being there for no less than 6 weeks, the MI parasite will make itself known because the fish is weakened and the fish can't get away from being re-infected by multiplying MI parasites. In other words, the quarantine procedure instigates a 'bloom' of the parasite which will make it visible to the aquarist. 14. All white nodules fall off the fish and move on to the cyst stage. Untrue. It has been discovered that, on very rare occasions (why we don't know) the white nodule will encyst and rupture while still on the fish. 15. UV and/or Ozone kills MI. Ozone doesn't kill all parasites that pass through the unit, nor does the water treated with ozone kill the parasites. UV only kills the parasites that pass through the unit. Not all MI parasites will pass through the unit, so the UV will not rid an aquarium of MI. A UV can help prevent a 'bloom' of the parasites however, and thus help in its control. UV is not a cure nor a preventative measure for MI. 16. Spots are MI. Untrue. Probably one of the most problematic causes for rumors and myth-information in the hobby is assuming the spot is Marine Ich when it may be one of another few dozen other parasites or conditions (e.g., pimple-like reaction to infection) that look like Marine Ich. The mis-diagnosis is often the cause for claims of what cured MI, when the fish didn't have MI to start with. 17. My LFS quarantines their fishes for 2 weeks and I only buy them to be sure they are healthy and free of MI. Have you been reading the above? The 2 weeks is not long enough. Was the 2 weeks in isolation or is the fish's water mixed with other fish's water? Seeing is not believing, right? The truth is out there. . .Trust no one. 18. New reports indicate that there are forms of MI parasites that can survive in low salinity. True. In brackish waters there are variants of the parasite that can live in salinity as low as 5-8 ppt. Then why should we still count upon hyposalinity as a treatment? Easy. The variant in brackish waters is not the variant in natural sea water (35ppt). A marine fish has the MI variant adapted to 35ppt. So when hyposalinity is used on this parasite - it works. 19. The parasite can adapt to low salinity and it can survive a hyposalinity treatment. Highly unlikely. The parasite can adapt. Mother Nature likes to throw genetic variants into the mix when life reproduces. The theory is to give the organism a chance to survive (natural selection) in a changing environment. When the salinity is lowered to about 11-12ppt in the treatment tank, the MI cysts and free-swimming parasites don’t have the time to go through an adjustment. The sudden shift in salinity puts too much stress on the parasite. They are not able to ‘suddenly’ adapt. Remember those parasites that do live in low salinity got there slowly and are not the same ones on our marine fishes. See 18. above. 20. It comes and goes and my fish are fine. Untrue. The parasite doesn't like light. It tends to go through its stages quickly in the dark. Some will develop their white spot at night and drop off before the hobbyist checks the tank. Also, fish can 'hide' the parasite in the display tank by harboring it in their gills. If the parasite was noted there, it is still there. It didn't 'go' anywhere. Hobbyists can and do see spots in the morning and come back at lunch and all the fish are 'clean.' The fish are still sick. REMEMBER you can't see the parasite. All you can see with the unaided eye is the one stage where the spot is large enough to see. PLEASE DON'T SPREAD RUMORS!

THIS NOT MINE GIVING CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE just read it! this should be a sticky.. required read for anyone in the Hobby http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/marine-ich-myths-facts-27003/ Marine Ich - Myths and Facts Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) One of the marine aquarist’s devils. So many articles have been written about it. Many are long or are in multiple parts. A lot is known about this marine fish disease because of the many $$$ put into research by the fish farming and aquaculture industries. First discovered (or the better word is 'noticed') in the 1800's and later more understood in the 1900's, we’ve learned about all there is to know about this parasite by the 2000's. I don’t want to write a long post on Marine Ich (MI) but the reader, in as brief of space as possible, should know some truths. The aquarist 'sees something' and then 'guesses' as to what it means and thus starts another round of rumors. It's almost a type of voodoo. It's easier to listen to a rumor of a short absolute statement then it is to read and understand the results of decades of studies and experiments. It is easier to try and take shortcuts with this disease by believing the parasite to be able or capable to do things or die from things it just can't, then it is to do the work to kill it, control it, or prevent it by the means that are known to work. It's time to separate out the rumors from the facts and the subjective observations (which start rumors) from actual scientific studies. In bullet form, here’s what is known: Life and Visuals: 1, The parasite has several ‘stages’ in its life cycle. Cyst in aquarium (usually on substrate, decoration, wall, equipment, or rock) ruptures into free-swimming parasites that burrow into fish, grow into a visible white nodule that is ‘pregnant’ with more parasites, that usually falls off the fish to form a cyst that releases more free-swimming parasites and starts the cycle over again. 2. Only time a human can see this parasite with the naked eye is when it is ‘pregnant’ on the fish and has formed a white nodule. (The white spot is about the size of a grain of table salt or sugar). [NOT ALL WHITE SPOTS MEAN MARINE ICH]. 3. Parasites that have just burrowed into the fish are not visible until 2. 4. Cycle can be completed in less than 7 days, but usually within 24 days BUT can go as long as 72 days. Literature usually quotes ‘average’ number of days. 72 days is rare; 60 days usually encompasses more than 99.9% of the observations and research. 5. This is not the same as the freshwater disease, Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifilis) but it was named after it?! This leads freshwater aquarists to thinking the wrong things about Marine Ich, adding to the myths and rumors. 6. MI is not very sensitive to temperature changes. That is, increasing the temperature does not significantly decrease the life cycle time. This is not true with Freshwater Ich (which is where this rumor of raising the temperature on a marine aquarium with MI comes from). 7. MI can live and reproduce in temperatures as low as 50F and as high as 90F. Thus temperatures that would kill MI would first kill or severely stress most tropical marine fishes. 8. Spots appear then disappear as MI goes through its cycle. Remember 2. This 'disappearing act' is what leads uninformed aquarists to believe the fish are cured. This is the dumbest thing aquarists can possibly think about this parasite! 9. Parasites seem to come in two types: one that only infects gills and one that infects gills and the fish’s body. The tissue of the gills has more exposure to the parasites because a lot of water goes by the gills as the fish ‘breathes’ or ‘swallows.’ Thus, there is an increase in chance the free-swimming parasite will get to the gill. This is one reason why fast breathing (over 90 swallows in one minute) is one of the symptoms of possible infection. 10. The parasite burrows into the fish, below the mucous layer and into the skin or gill itself. (This is why cleaner fish/shrimp can’t get to it in order to remove them from the fish). The second dumbest thing an aquarist can think: I'll get some cleaner fish or cleaner shrimp to remove/eat the parasite. THESE MARINES DO NOT EAT THE MI PARASITE NOR WILL FISH OR SHRIMP REMOVE THE PARASITE FROM THE INFECTED FISHES. Research has shown that the intestinal tracks of cleaner fish and shrimp do not contain MI parasites - - these lifeforms don’t eat MI off of infected fishes. 11. Parasite is transmitted in water (free-swimming and cyst stages), or by falling off of an infected fish (even one that seems healthy because of 9.). This means that water OR fish from another aquarium can carry the disease to another aquarium. 12. The parasite can infect bony fishes, including eels, sharks, and rays, though many species of fish, like Mandarins, have a good resistance to MI, they can still be infected and can harbor or carry the parasite. Invertebrates, snails, crabs, corals, plants, etc. are not affected/infected by MI, but the MI can be in their water, shells, etc. 13. There is no such thing as a dormant stage for MI. The parasite can’t wait around for another host. It MUST go through its cycle. Dr. Burgess recorded that in the cyst stage, he found the longest existing cyst to last for 60 days before releasing the free-swimming parasites. This is rare but possible. This led to the recommendation by many to allow 8 weeks for a fishless tank to be rid of this parasite. 14. INTERESTING FIND: If no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has ‘worn itself out’ and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months. Treatments: 1. Hyposalinity - Using a refractometer, hold salinity at 11ppt to 12ppt until 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. (Best to use salinity, but if you use specific gravity, that equates to roughly 1.008 to 1.009 sp. gr. units). Raise salinity slowly and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Hard to control pH and water quality during treatment. This is the least stressful treatment for the fish. See: A Fish Hyposalinity Treatment 2. Copper treatment - Follow medication recommendations. Can be effective in 2 to 4 weeks of treatment. After treatment, remove all copper and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Copper is a poison to the fish and creates some stress. The fish may stop eating. See end of this post for other things that can go wrong. See: Copper Medications - Good, Bad, and Ugly. 3.. Transfer method - Fish is moved from tank to tank to separate the fish from the cysts that fall off and the free-swimming stages of the parasite. Two hospital tanks are needed to perform this treatment. The fish is stressed by having to keep moving it between these hospital tanks. 4. Only the above 3 known cures fall into this category: Don't require prescriptions; use chemicals that are not carcinogens to humans; and work 100% of the time when diligently peroformed. Other chemicals will kill the MI parasite, but only in special conditions (not good for the fish) or in lab experiments (not using marine fish). Some chemicals will only kill some of the organisms, letting the others escape death to go on to multiply and infect. 5. Not any of the treatments can be done in a display tank with true live rock. Must be done in a hospital tank or quarantine tank. The hyposalinity and the copper treatment would kill invertebrates, live rock, and other non-fish marine life. Substrates and carbonates interfere with a copper treatment. 6. No known ‘reef-safe’ remedies work consistently. Many aquarists think a particular remedy works when in fact the fish acquire an immunity or defense against the parasite. It’s easy for any manufacturer to have an independent study done on the effectiveness of the ‘reef-safe’ remedy but they don’t because. . . 7. Cleaner shrimp and cleaner wrasses are not known to pick these parasites off of fish. (See 10. above). 8. Freshwater dips can kill some of the parasites on/in the fish, but not all of them because many of the parasites are protected by the fish's skin and mucous layer. (See 10. above). 9. No dip can get rid of these parasites because primarily of 10. above. 10. Let aquarium go fishless (without any foreign saltwater additions (e.g., water from LFS system, water from another tank or system -- use only distilled or RO/DI for evaporation and freshly made, uncontaminated salt water for water changes), without contamination from infected tanks, live rock additions, etc.) for at least 8 weeks and the tank will be free of MI. This 'fallow period' has over a 99.9% chance of success. 11. NEVER combine a copper treatment with a hyposalinity treatment. pH is hard to control in a hyposaline solution. If the pH drops, the copper complexed with water carbonates becomes 'free' and raises the copper content the fish is exposed to. The effect is similar to to overdosing with copper. Not worth the risk. Since they both cure Marine Ich, use one or the other and don't put so much stress on the fish (and yourself). Defense and Immunity: 1. The fish’s mucous coating can provide some protection from the parasite. The mucous coating is where some fish immunity develops. 2. When water temperature drops, mucous coating is often reduced or lost in marine fishes, that is why sometimes MI becomes visible on the body of the fish after a sudden drop in temperature. This meant, however, that the disease was present and living in the aquarium, infecting fish without the aquarist having been aware of it. 3. No fish, no matter how good its defense is, can stop being infected. A healthy fish will and can be equally infected as a sick or stressed fish. What happens is the aquarists sees one or more fish with the disease and assumes because none are seen on the other fish in the aquarium that they are 'disease free.' NOT. Aquarists can't always see the parasites. See above top, 2., 3., and 9. All fish in an infected tank require treatment. MI is not and opportunistic pathogen - - It can and does infect healthy, unstressed fishes. 4. A weak, stressed, or sick fish will die sooner than a healthy fish, but is no more likely to get infected than the healthy fish. 5. A fish that survives an attack may develop proteins (also in the mucous coating) that will help fend off the parasite (this is a type of immune response). An immune fish will not get infected. Unfortunately. . .(see 6. below). . . 6. An immune fish doesn’t remain immune. Separated from the disease for months, the once immune fish can become MI infected. 7. Immunization seems to work, but not affordable or likely available to the hobby for many more decades. The immunization materials are hard to make, expensive, and slow to produce. Unfortunately, like it states in 6. above, the immunity is short-lived. Subjective and Non-Subjective Observations, Claims, and Common Myths 1. Tangs seem more susceptible. True. Their mucous coatings are reduced in thickness and composition. They swim up to 25 miles a day in the ocean in search for food so maybe Mother Nature provided them with this as a means of 'escaping' being reinfected by the free-swimming parasites. 2. It goes away on its own. Untrue. Only visible at one stage IF it is on the body or fin of the fish. It’s the life cycle. If it was once seen, then it hasn't gone away -- it's just not visible to the aquarist. 3. It goes away with a ‘reef-safe’ remedy. Untrue. This is one of the biggest and most 'dangerous' of the misrepresentations in the hobby. The aquarist thinks everything is okay when it isn't. What usually has happened is that the parasite has killed the fish it will kill and the rest have developed a resistance or immunity. OR the strain of MI turns to infecting the gills only where the only stage of it can’t be seen by the hobbyist. The parasite is still in the aquarium. 4. It was gone then when a new fish is added, it is there again. Not true. See 3. It wasn’t gone or the new fish brought in the disease with it. A new addition to an aquarium can be the stress which triggers the other fish to reduce their defense or immunity, thus allow the parasite to 'bloom' to the point where the infection is now visible to the aquarist. 5. The fish lived the last outbreak then died during the second or subsequent outbreak. Can be true. The fish had a resistance or immunity that it lost. 6. It was diagnosed as MI spots, then never showed up again. It wasn’t MI or the fish quickly developed an immediate immunity or resistance, or the fish is still infected in the gills. 7. MI can ‘hang around’ almost unnoticed with just a body spot now and then because it often resides just in the gills. True. So ‘it is gone’ after ‘it was here’ is very unlikely. 8. Aquariums always have MI. Untrue. MI can be kept out of an aquarium. Just quarantine all fish and don’t let non-quarantined livestock get into the aquarium. After keeping thousands of marine fishes, my home aquariums have been free of MI since 1970. 9. Fish always have MI. Untrue. In the wild they often show up to 30% infected (or more) but the wild fish survive minor infections. In the tank the parasite can 'bloom.' In the tank the fish can't get away. The combination of bloom and no escape will overcome the fish. In capture and transportation the fish can share the disease and thus many wild caught marine aquarium fishes do have this parasite, but not all. 10. Like 9. a fish can't be made to be totally rid of MI. Untrue. All marine fish can be cured and rid of any MI infection. 11. Just feed the fish well and/or feed it garlic and it will be okay. Untrue. I compare this approach to this one: "Granny has pneumonia. Let's keep her home rather than take her to the hospital. We'll feed her well with chicken soup and vitamins -- and lots of garlic." :looney: Nutrition, foods, garlic, vitamins don't cure an infected fish. An infected fish is sick and is being tortured by the itching and discomfort. Don't let this happen to the fish. Cure it!! 12. A new cure has been discovered. Unlikely. If the aquarist thinks they have found a new cure, then have it researched and independently tested. It's easy and cheap. If it is as good as the above 3 then the professional veterinarians, private and public aquariums, fish farms, and I will use it. The aquarist needs to keep the perspective of how devastating this parasite is not to just the hobby but to the whole fish farming industry. Any new way of 100% treatment will make headlines! 13. If the MI can't always be detected, then why bother with a quarantine procedure? In the confines of a small quarantine and being there for no less than 6 weeks, the MI parasite will make itself known because the fish is weakened and the fish can't get away from being re-infected by multiplying MI parasites. In other words, the quarantine procedure instigates a 'bloom' of the parasite which will make it visible to the aquarist. 14. All white nodules fall off the fish and move on to the cyst stage. Untrue. It has been discovered that, on very rare occasions (why we don't know) the white nodule will encyst and rupture while still on the fish. 15. UV and/or Ozone kills MI. Ozone doesn't kill all parasites that pass through the unit, nor does the water treated with ozone kill the parasites. UV only kills the parasites that pass through the unit. Not all MI parasites will pass through the unit, so the UV will not rid an aquarium of MI. A UV can help prevent a 'bloom' of the parasites however, and thus help in its control. UV is not a cure nor a preventative measure for MI. 16. Spots are MI. Untrue. Probably one of the most problematic causes for rumors and myth-information in the hobby is assuming the spot is Marine Ich when it may be one of another few dozen other parasites or conditions (e.g., pimple-like reaction to infection) that look like Marine Ich. The mis-diagnosis is often the cause for claims of what cured MI, when the fish didn't have MI to start with. 17. My LFS quarantines their fishes for 2 weeks and I only buy them to be sure they are healthy and free of MI. Have you been reading the above? The 2 weeks is not long enough. Was the 2 weeks in isolation or is the fish's water mixed with other fish's water? Seeing is not believing, right? The truth is out there. . .Trust no one. 18. New reports indicate that there are forms of MI parasites that can survive in low salinity. True. In brackish waters there are variants of the parasite that can live in salinity as low as 5-8 ppt. Then why should we still count upon hyposalinity as a treatment? Easy. The variant in brackish waters is not the variant in natural sea water (35ppt). A marine fish has the MI variant adapted to 35ppt. So when hyposalinity is used on this parasite - it works. 19. The parasite can adapt to low salinity and it can survive a hyposalinity treatment. Highly unlikely. The parasite can adapt. Mother Nature likes to throw genetic variants into the mix when life reproduces. The theory is to give the organism a chance to survive (natural selection) in a changing environment. When the salinity is lowered to about 11-12ppt in the treatment tank, the MI cysts and free-swimming parasites don’t have the time to go through an adjustment. The sudden shift in salinity puts too much stress on the parasite. They are not able to ‘suddenly’ adapt. Remember those parasites that do live in low salinity got there slowly and are not the same ones on our marine fishes. See 18. above. 20. It comes and goes and my fish are fine. Untrue. The parasite doesn't like light. It tends to go through its stages quickly in the dark. Some will develop their white spot at night and drop off before the hobbyist checks the tank. Also, fish can 'hide' the parasite in the display tank by harboring it in their gills. If the parasite was noted there, it is still there. It didn't 'go' anywhere. Hobbyists can and do see spots in the morning and come back at lunch and all the fish are 'clean.' The fish are still sick. REMEMBER you can't see the parasite. All you can see with the unaided eye is the one stage where the spot is large enough to see. PLEASE DON'T SPREAD RUMORS! nuff said.. open season to all comers

the reason for no LR hypo kills off all the good things... (with out going it to heavy detail please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Medium yellow tang, blue tang, small coral beauty (smooth sided / or small scales hardest to save). put your seeded filter in a bigger one to seed that one.. helps a lot bb QT I now have a 40 gal qt with 40 gal sump run phosban to help with ammonia carbon ect.. ( that worked for me had a brown algea out braek as the tank cycled but didn't lose and fish to it) pm me can send details or come over and help.. still heart broken over the ones I lost...

Medium yellow tang, blue tang, small coral beauty, hard choice.. whee woo whee woo tang police... should be in min 120 gal IMHO.. but they may make it in a 40 for a few weeks...as far as I'm concerned.. hypo is the only way to beat this with out killing the rest of your tank... got the same answer out of the LFS as to garlic and feeding cost me $200 in fish. It treats the symtoms and not the cause... just because I beat i once does not make me an expert.. but I listen to to them.. saved my a** a couple of times on other things.. okay flaming can continue... We really need a sticky that covers all of this.. if there is one there Im sry didn't see it forgive me..

read these http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/hyposalinity/ht/ht_hyposalinity.htm hope I helped..

okay will do the best that I can .. #1 leave your fish in the tank.. fish that live will build up immunity to ich and live thru it.. tank still will have ich for about 11 months ( they may lose that imunity to ich at some point an start the whole cycle over.. and you can't always see it. sometimes just lives feeding off the gils assumiing that you put no more new fish in the tank) that it takes to run its cycle... #2 put them in QT with hypo ( 1.10 to 1.16 sg then raise slowly) for about 8 +- 2 wks no LR fish only.. leave DT fallow ( no fish lr and coral only) (time depends on temp hotter + faster cyle for ich) #3 put in hsp tank with copper )1-2 weeks DT still has ich may or may not show up again for months maybe never) (never put these meds (copper ect in DT).. meds ect but hosp tank forever condemed to fish only no lr ect .. ( and all equipemnt used condemed) big pain.. this is my understanding of the 3 main modes of how to treat it.. ask kimberlee for the links take about 1-2 hrs to read them. let the flamming begin

"potentially in rock and sand" if one has it it's in the tank rule is my understanding... also from reading up on it takes like 11 months run its course b4 for it dies out.. idk, unless you QT the whole LS and let the tank lie fallow for 8 to 10 weeks ( sry can't spell sometimes deslexia doing my best to be helpful) see http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951 Lots of responces.. just know that I got my fish out as soon as I could and used hypo and they stopped dying.. what I saved are happy and healthy now.. ask Kimberlee she has a good link to a better thread. I read it and followed what it said to do and it saved my fish. Thank you Kimberlee

just went thru the same thing ( ich ) luckly had a filter I could use. Get a larger filter put the media that you have in it to seed the new one.. imho its what I would do with what you have to work with.. If need be, I could house it for you til you get yours up and running (Hate to say it you might loose it any way but, sometimes something is better than nothing) .. fully cycled QT tank. (lost several fishes b4 I could get them all out of the infected tank very sad (they will be sorely missed).. but saved quite a few(bright spot)

+1 lawn mower is great. had mine for a while now reminds of a puppy, feeding time he comes out and sits there waging his tail, food time! great to watch, when ever I get near the tank he follows me back and forth... must think he's going to get fed, since I put him in no algea problems.. eats a mixed diet

nice clowns, from nice people