grassi

I agree that Frank should use GFO after knowing how high he is running his tank.

I think that his issues with GFO, as also some of you pointed out, were due to a fast drop in Phosphates. It is not the GFO itself, or a specific brand, but it is just the difference between an high and a relatively low level of po4 in a short amount of time.

This article from Randy Holmes Farley can be useful to understand the dynamics of the introduction of GFO in a system with high po4: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php

This other article is interesting too. I support the theory of gfo leaching back po4 at some point (when the po4 in the tank are low).

This is something that was empirically proved and that can be easily tested.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

"Phosphate bound to GFO surfaces is still available to the water column by exchange, so the sequestering is temporary rather than permanent. This fact is known in the literature, and can be shown experimentally. I will show the detail in upcoming articles, but it can easily be demonstrated by adsorbing phosphate onto GFO, and adding enough so that a detectable concentration of phosphate (say, 0.1 to 1 ppm) is in equilibrium with the solids. Then remove the solid GFO and add it to seawater with no detectable phosphate. The now-detectable phosphate in the new seawater shows that the phosphate can be released from the GFO media when the aquarium's phosphate concentration drops low enough."

I'm not saying that GFO is bad. I use it myself. But it is not a magic powder that you throw in a reactor and it will do the job. You have to know what you are doing and monitor the results. Otherwise the side effects can be worst that the benefits.

What I suggest to Frank at this point is to gradually get rid of the po4 with water changes. You don't need GFO for that. With water changes you can measure how much you are lowering it.

Before to do that, you have to be sure that you are not introducing more po4 into your system. Fortunately, there are just a few ways to introduce po4 in a reef tank: water source and food being the greatest part of it and easily controllable.

Once you are down to acceptable levels, start with some GFO. Start slow and go up. This is necessary because your live rock will take some time to leach back the po4 accumulated.

When you are low, stop using it and control the phosphate added to the tank. Water changes and the filtration system will do the rest.

Keep testing during this period of time and keep in mind that Po4 levels varies a lot during the day, being low in the morning and going up (also, but not only, for the feeding).

BTW: we are all discussing and giving suggestions to how to run a tank which is looking GREAT as colors and growth. Keep the high po4 Frank! Who cares, it works for you

I hope this helps

Frank, do this. Boil the cuvettes for about 10 minutes in RO/DI water (or distilled water).

Put something inside so they don't shatter.

Then let them soak in vinegar for a few hours. Rinse a few times (5-10) with RO/DI or Distilled water.

Then put your gloves on and test. Clean the cuvettes before you put them in the checker with a glasses cloth (or similar microfiber cloth).

Clean them both times (zeroing and test).

Use one cuvette per test: fill with water, do the c1, fill with powder, put it back and do the c2.

Cut the reagent in one corner, or all the way on the top so you can make a little funnel. Be sure you pour all the powder.

Let me know how it goes.

If you are around during the weekend you can swing by my place and we can test on my tank again.

Ok soI know mine is High and I want it to look better but here is the question why do we think it has to be that low. I look at my tank andI dont have any hair alge or any real problems I dont see anything that look wrong it jus want it to look a little better. So why is it mine is so high but still looks good?

I told you: leave it as it is

But you keep saying that you want more growth...

"Grassi explaind to me why the tank didnt like the GFO. As strange as this sounds the new way seems to work.... "

 

Frank, what did Grassi tell you? Please share.

Frank is running a probiotic method. Carbon and bacteria don't go well with GFO.

First the two tend to compete. Then the GFO is gonna release the phosphates if the water column has a very low concentration of phosphates.

The GFO subtract the phosphates from the water, but it is just temporary and they are still in the water column and they will be release back if the rest of the water has a very low concentration of it.

Be sure that the heater is not gonna melt the plastic bucket when on

Payment received and pm'ed for today.

Here is the list for this coral:

KMiller

ClayTheSavageFraser

coralreefer

jgf86123

Mike the accuracy is not measured on the human mistake, but just on the cell itself. You have to add the human error factor on top of that.

So if you are really good, you still have that 0.04 every time you test.

The new Phosphorus checker has a better accuracy, but the quality of the reagent make it useless. With good reagents it can be an accurate checker. You still have to convert from P to PO4, but you already do some math when testing alk

Kate, it looks like a nice idea. Let's do it not this time, but for the april meeting. I want to get some good reagents for my photometer first

Anything .3 and lower is OK. Its actually better to have some than none FME.

0.3? that's a lot lol

Most of the expert suggest to stay below 0.02

If you meant 0.03, then ok.. 0.02 or 0.03 are pretty much the same with the testing instruments that most of us are using

Don't worry Alessandro, this thread was already messed up

And don't worry for your english as well: Italianish is the new english. 50 years from now we will all speak like me and you in this country.

That's a really nice tank Alereef. You really have to start a thread here!

Mike, I have it connected to the main pump, so I have to measure. I guess around 250/300gph "by hand". There is a nice flow and the sand does not move.

The bucket is on top of the sump stand, behind the 2 40g tanks so it drains down directly.

Mick, my system is always growing so I have to adjust my setup every once in a while. And experimenting new techniques and see the effects is fun.

Frank, you can find them on craigslist: http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/grd/2269489033.html

Wash them with vinegar or soda ash and you are ready to go.

Mike, the problem of the Hanna phosphates, both the small unit and the blue one, is that the inaccuracy with the reagents is +/- 0.04.

Which makes them useless for an sps tank where your goal is <0.02ppm

With the Hanna I was always reading 0. Then I got the weater tested better and I found out to be around 0.025

Sweet, lets do it!

 

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Going back to Europe in a few... I'll give you a call when I'm back (end of april). By then the colony will be ready to be fragged for you and KMiller

As for being expensive... yes.. in 2 months I spent more in rc cars than one year in reef keeping!

I used to race 1/8 buggy at national level back in 1998/2000

Just got back into the hobby with a Savage and a Losi xxx-sct.

Which LHS?

Really nice tank' date=' Alessandro![/quote']

 

Thanks Alessandro. I feel like I'm talking to my alterego

I'm glad you joined our club.

Thanks again for your suggestion about the test equipment.

Do you have a link to your tank thread to share?

humm i probably should gather up everything i have and figure out how many amps its pulling.

 

off topic: i race rc cars nearly everyday at work and they can draw over 100amps in a single second lol.

That's your job?

DANG!!! I MISSED IT!! LOL! I got dibs on the next one!!

Well, I need some more ink...

Pending to Topher

Just added a remote deep sand bed. Let's see how it goes

And added a second controller (Reef Angel, based on Arduino)

I fragged my colony while doing some rockscaping.

Asking $25. Really nice colored one.

About 10 branches showing all the 3 colors.

Frag for sale just glued and pissed off:

From ORA website:

I'm interested, if you do need to program how difficult is it?

 

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It depends on your computer skills. Not really difficult. It just takes some time. But out of the box it is running really well without the need of writing a single line of code.

Looking really good Brad!

I've got the original low range meter (larger blue box)

This one: http://www.hannainst.com/usa/prods2.cfm?id=009001002&ProdCode=HI%2096713 ?

So before you do anything drastic get a confirmation with someone else phosphate meter. You are welcome to bring a water sample, both tank and new makeup water over to my house and I can confirm with my low range hanna meter if you want.

 

Running GFO on newly made saltwater kinda sounds ridiculous because newly made seawater should not have very many phosphates in it... If it was me and the makeup water was confirmed to have that high of phosphate I would dump it ASAP, after all if phosphate somehow is being leached into the new water, what else is?

Which low range Hanna do you use?

They are little toys. I own a couple. If you use them with other reagents they are useful too other than cute little eggs lol