Snails Dying

[racefan]

I've had 5 snails die in a month & a half. I've lost 2 turbo snails,2 nasarius snails & 1 Trochus Snail.The trochus snail died a day or so after I got it, the last turbo died last night.My wife said this morning the Emerald crab was picking at the shell,I'm assuming the crab did not kill it but was just picking at the empty shell? The water parameters are fine.I'm doing 10% water changes once a week.The only things in the tank are a pair of clowns,a fire shrimp,Emerald crab(small) & a little red star fish.Sorry I don't know the species I got it at Rose City and forgot to ask Nick the name of it.The tank is a 29 gal bio cube.Sorry if I'm rambling I'm just throwing as much info as I can out there.

[reefboy]

A few things could be happening in a small system when doing water changes if your salanity is off it really effects these animals.Another is a preditor like a crab has got a taste for them or you could be having heat issues as this can affect snails and there cousins.And another may just be bad luck as these can come in bad look fine untill you get them home.

[stylaster]

salinity is a big factor for inverts as reefboy said, also check your ph they are sensitive to large ph swings, i would take a sample durning the day then a sample early in the morning before lights come on and compare. As for normal snail survial ill buy in batches of 5 or 10 and seems like in 1-2 weeks ill lose a couple in the end after a few months ill still have about 1/2 alive

[reefboy]

good catch, definatly check your Ph swing.

 

 

salinity is a big factor for inverts as reefboy said' date=' also check your ph they are sensitive to large ph swings, i would take a sample durning the day then a sample early in the morning before lights come on and compare. As for normal snail survial ill buy in batches of 5 or 10 and seems like in 1-2 weeks ill lose a couple in the end after a few months ill still have about 1/2 alive[/quote']

[racefan]

I think I may have tracked it to salinity. It went up & down by a couple points for a couple weeks. I never really liked those darned turbo snails anyway,they seemed like a bull in a china shop knocking things over.

[Mr. Reef]

What does this starfish look like? Do you have a picture of him?

 

Do you dose iodine into your system regularly?

 

 

Ricky Soutas Jr.

-Soutas Saltwater & Reef Inc.-

[racefan]

Ricky, Here's a pic.No I do not dose with anything.P.S. It's about the size of a 50 cent piece maybe a tad smaller.

[Mr. Reef]

Ricky' date=' Here's a pic.No I do not dose with anything.P.S. It's about the size of a 50 cent piece maybe a tad smaller.[/quote']

 

 

Without a close up picture I'm going to guess that it is a red Fromia missing a leg can't be sure though.

 

If it is a Fromia they themselves are more sensitive than crabs or snails to changes in specific gravity, PH, oxygen amount, and lastly temperature. He would have been more than likely the first thing to go.

 

I'd say the inverts are dying due to a depletion of Iodine. Good balanced salt will bring more of this into the system, but in my opinion if your keeping any invertebrates you should be dosing Iodine into your system. They stay much healthier at the very least. Most anemones will even start to bleach out if they don't recieve enough Iodine.

 

 

Ricky Soutas Jr.

-Soutas Saltwater & Reef Inc.-

[racefan]

Ricky, I did a little checking & it is a red Fromia.It was missing a leg when I got it,I guess I kinda fell for the underdog aspect;)

[Mr. Reef]

Ricky' date=' I did a little checking & it is a red Fromia.It was missing a leg when I got it,I guess I kinda fell for the underdog aspect;)[/quote']

 

Aha, I knew it! (laugh)

 

I don't know, he looks pretty cool to me. I like things that are different, they're more fun to examine.

 

 

Ricky Soutas Jr.

-Soutas Saltwater & Reef Inc.-

[gradth]

Hey, thanks for the info in this post. Going through a similar problem right now with snails dying off. Had about 5 turbos and 4 or 5 astreas die off causing a huge cyno problem.

 

You mentioned tempature. With my halides im having a really hard time keeping my tank below 80. It seems to get up to about 82 in the day then comes back down a few degrees.

 

Also, with the salinity I am not physically seeing much of a swing, but I do have a bout a 2 to 3 gallon evaporation rate daily that I am having to top off. ATO is coming soon I hope, but should I be topping off just a little at a time?

 

Didnt know about the Iodine, I was dosing then just kinda got off track with it. Ill pick that back up again.

[Mr. Reef]

It is important to make sure that it doesn't go above 80. You start to put creatures under stress when this happens.

 

There's a few things you can try to fix this problem:

 

If you have a canopy you could install some Smart Fans to remove the heat from it. Maybe some type of exhaust to the outside of your house (If possible).

 

The other more expensive option is getting a chiller, which in my opinion are great. If you do just make sure you get one that works for the size of your tank and gph it requires. I'd also note that spending a few extra bucks on a chiller that does just a little more than you need will save you some money with use. It can cool down the water quicker which means the less it will have to stay on using valuable electricity.

 

That seems like a pretty normal rate to me (Evaporation). I personally like small constant water changes rather than big ones. A small water change on a 55 is like 15-20 or so gallons to me.

 

So, basically what your experiencing is top-off water. If the salinity of this water is the same as the tank or off by .001+- you'll be more than fine.

 

Yes, please start adding Iodine again. It is very important if are keeping invertebrates (This means corals too) in your tank.

 

 

Ricky Soutas Jr.

-Soutas Saltwater & Reef Inc.-

[gradth]

Thanks for the input. Chiller is out of my price range right now, but something I will look into as soon as I can. Ill add some more fans and see about venting it. Would putting the heater on a timer to only come on at certain times help? I have read that people do that.

[Mr. Reef]

Thanks for the input. Chiller is out of my price range right now' date=' but something I will look into as soon as I can. Ill add some more fans and see about venting it. Would putting the heater on a timer to only come on at certain times help? I have read that people do that.[/quote']

 

I suppose you could. I'm not sure what timing you would need to input since I'm not in your area though. :p

 

I'd recommend it off during the hot hours (Obviously) and on during the night/cooling down phase.

 

Does your heater have a temperature control dial on it?(scratch)

 

 

Ricky Soutas Jr.

-Soutas Saltwater & Reef Inc.-

[TAD]

Your heater should only come on when the water temperature drops below your set temperature I would think. Your pumps and powerheads can create heat as well I assume.

[Mr. Reef]

Your heater should only come on when the water temperature drops below your set temperature I would think. Your pumps and powerheads can create heat as well I assume.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I'm wondering if he has a heater with a temperature dial instead of a built in setting. We'll have to wait for that answer.

 

 

Ricky Soutas Jr.

-Soutas Saltwater & Reef Inc.-

[gradth]

Im using a Hydor 400 watt heater. It does have the dial. It comes on and off when needed. I have read that people use them on timers that is why I asked.

 

As far as adding fans, do you want them venting the air or blowing on the tank? I have two large fans on my light fixture, and currently the canopy is not done so it is open.

[Lowman]

I like to use one fan blowing in and the opposite fan blowing out. When it get real hot I freeze like 10 2 liter bottles of water and put on or two of them in the sump. This will help keep it cool. I also change the times when my lights are on during the day. So if you have your lights come on in the evening when it is cooling off outside, you may have better luck keeping your tank cool. I burn my lights later in the day anyway, if I'm gone all day, it makes no sense for me to have the lights go off shortly after I get home. Why not have them burn later so I can enjoy them during the evening time when I'm home. Just a thought.

[gradth]

Thanks lowman, I have been considering changing my lighting a bit anyway. Never thought about evenings being cooler and such.

 

Ill try the water bottle idea also. Im still finishing up my canopy so I need all the input on fans and stuff.

 

thank you all.

[Rick]

Thanks lowman, I have been considering changing my lighting a bit anyway. Never thought about evenings being cooler and such.

 

Ill try the water bottle idea also. Im still finishing up my canopy so I need all the input on fans and stuff.

 

thank you all.

 

I don't know what you have for lighting but I just finished putting a fixture into my hood a week or so ago with 2 x 175W MH, 2 X 96W PC, and an extra ODNO Flourescent (About 73 Watts). The fixture itself had bad fans in the end so I replaced them with a single thin 4" PC fan (Kamikaze I think). The fan was an extra left over from the last MiniITX Computer build I did. This pulls air from outside and pushes it through the fixture. This alone was not keeping the temperature down though (After 3 days it creaped up to about 80). 2 days ago I added another 4" fan on the opposite end that pulls air out of the hood. The fan is an Antec 3 speed fan and at the lowest speed it brought the temps down 6 degrees within 24 hours. Essentially the same thing Lowman is suggesting to have one pull air in and the other to pull it out. I personally like to use 4" fans instead of multiple smaller ones since the larger fans are generally quieter and move more air. PC fans work great at a reasonable cost and you can use an old 12V power adapter from a laptop or other old broken electronics. (I have a few old Laptop power bricks so that worked for me) I also like the idea of 12V DC running up into the hood when I can get away with it rather than 110 AC.

 

Lowman, I'm going to keep that water bottle tip in mind in case I experience heat issues through the summer. Great Tip - Thanks.

[gradth]

PC fans work great at a reasonable cost and you can use an old 12V power adapter from a laptop or other old broken electronics. (I have a few old Laptop power bricks so that worked for me)

 

I have considered this, actually have some 4 inch pc fans laying around.

 

My question is how do you connect a 12v power adapter to a pc fan. Or are you actually talking about a pc power supply?

[Rick]

I have considered this, actually have some 4 inch pc fans laying around.

 

My question is how do you connect a 12v power adapter to a pc fan. Or are you actually talking about a pc power supply?

A PC power supply could be used as well but it is way way overkill just to run a couple of fans. (A regular PC Power Supply has 3 voltage rails that make it harder to figure out and you would need to add in a switch or rewire it to turn it on anyway)

 

PC Fans will usually have either 2 or 3 wires. The third wire if it exists is just a RPM sensing wire so it doesn't need to be connected to anything. I don't recall the color on the third wire (It's one of the outside wires) but you can just use trial and error to figure out which 2 wires turn the fan on. (You can't really hurt the fan with 12V if it isn't right on the first try) For the laptop power adapter I use a Digital Ohm Meter to determine which lead is which. Older ones usually just have 2 wires (12V neg/pos) while newer bigger ones will have more wires. On the ones I have here the extra wires were just an extra set of pos/neg 12V leads. (The brick for the one I'm typing on now is an exception (newer system) with several wires that I suspect have 2 or 3 different voltages much like a regular PC power supply would) These are to push more amps. The fans are not going to require much so I would use an older one that is smaller if you have a choice. (With only 2 wires to deal with it simplifies things as well) The older 2 wire ones will usually have a standard connector and a trip to Radio Shack will usually locate a matching female plug or you can cut the plug off and wire it direct if you want. (I prefer the connector in case I need to move the hood without a power brick hanging from it) If the fan is a single speed fan (No extra switch hanging from it) then you might also see if an old cell phone charger will start it up. (Try to find one around 5 or 6 volts) If it does then the fan will run slower (And Quieter). PC Modders will often add resitors to the case fans to slow them down when they are building quiet PC's which is doing essentially the same thing (It's also what the multi speed fans do to slow them down) and if I recall right they can usually get them to run at around 6 volts. If it doesn't keep it cool enough at lower voltage then you can always swap to the 12V. One other thing to note is that most power adapters (Laptop, cell phone chargers, etc.) will have the output voltage and amps on the label so that may help while searching for one if you have several. (I tend to hang onto that type of thing so I have several to choose from)

 

BTW, Don't stand in the tank while your working on the wiring :eek:

 

Rick

[gradth]

great info, thanks Rick.

 

Any chance you got pictures of your hook up?

[gradth]

Woo hoo, figured it out. Got one to work on the first try.

 

Now I just need to go pick up some 4 inch fans.

 

Im assuming I can piggy back a couple together on one adapter?

 

Ill post a picture soon as I figure out what the wife did with the camera.

[Rick]

great info, thanks Rick.

 

Any chance you got pictures of your hook up?

 

If I get the plug put on in the next day or so I'll get a picture. Right now it is just temporarily connected since I didn't have the right plug handy. Here are a few pics of the fan and power brick though. Technically the power brick isn't for a laptop but rather this on is from a 10" Touchscreen Monitor I am using for a Car PC system I'm working on. (The monitor will be powered by the vehicle so I don't need it for that) In the first pic you can see the fan off to the right side, the second is the fan on the outside (If my hood was taller I would have put it inside instead and used a screen outside), the last pic shows the power brick.

 

Rick