Algae Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 How does this look? My main concern is not to force too much of a restriction early in the return since I have heard it is one of the causes of cavitation. The "area of concern" is the major question. I have heard that it is best to go from larger to smaller diameter pipe/restriction. The actual layout is a bit more complicated since I must snake around water heater, etc. I think I will be using dual 1" or 1 1/2" Cepex ball valves instead of the more (?) restrictive ball valves shown to balance flow to each tank. Whatcha think? The intake is going to be 1 1/2" to 1" inlet to pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Anyone?????? Wow nobody? Off to RC i guess..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 With that many fittings you may want to consider Spa Flex, might make it easier around a water heater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Anyone?????? 50 mins are you serious (laugh) so you return to the tanks on the Iwaki is out the front and not the top? I am not familar with the ball valve you are talking about but if it will allow for fine adjustments like a gate valve all the better. Going to a gate valve would have been my only suggestion-Still can't imaging the return not going straight up from any pump which then would feed the manifold or wye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 sorry forgot to add-I would have valves at the top as well to evenly disrtibute the water to the loc lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 I know what you mean, Steve! I just think my radius may be too small and I may need 45 degree ell's. If I used Spaflex, I might look like a lap dancer having a seizure while trying to install it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 .....................................................................lap dance...................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Brad: I can come out any direction with the pump, since the housing/volute can be rotated. I am staying away from gate valves since I have heard that "they all, eventually leak" 50 mins are you serious (laugh) so you return to the tanks on the Iwaki is out the front and not the top? I am not familar with the ball valve you are talking about but if it will allow for fine adjustments like a gate valve all the better. Going to a gate valve would have been my only suggestion-Still can't imaging the return not going straight up from any pump which then would feed the manifold or wye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Did not know that about the gate valves-I will need to look into the types of valves you are using. Still would consider adding some valve at the top, I did a split return and water alway follows the path of least resistance and one return pushed out a lot more water (until I added a valve-(laugh)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Did you split with a true wye, Brad? Cepex valve: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/1-5-schedule-80-cepex-ball-valve.html Did not know that about the gate valves-I will need to look into the types of valves you are using. Still would consider adding some valve at the top, I did a split return and water alway follows the path of least resistance and one return pushed out a lot more water (until I added a valve-(laugh)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Did you split with a true wye, Brad? Cepex valve: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/1-5-schedule-80-cepex-ball-valve.html I didn't since I had way more pump thab I needed, I just used a simple 'T' which I would not do again, simply for the loss of water volume. Thanks for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 I'm wondering if going part of the return at 1 1/2" is going to benefit me? Maybe I should go at 1 1/4" or 1"? Do you think I am going to reduce head pressure too much by having the beginning if the return at 1 1/2"? The pump outet is 1". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanktop74 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Did you split with a true wye, Brad? Cepex valve: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/1-5-schedule-80-cepex-ball-valve.html FYI... you can get that same type of valve at Lowes for 1/2 the price... granted its a schedule 40 but other than that they are basically the same. As for the plumbing it looks good to me, same basic layout as i did on my SPS tank when I plumbed it. The only suggestion would to use spa flex if you can, I was not able to for full return but did for just part of it, worked out well. As far as the flow, I am not familiar with the Iwaki pumps. I used a reeflo pump for mine and have more than enough flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 FYI... you can get that same type of valve at Lowes for 1/2 the price... granted its a schedule 40 but other than that they are basically the same. As for the plumbing it looks good to me, same basic layout as i did on my SPS tank when I plumbed it. The only suggestion would to use spa flex if you can, I was not able to for full return but did for just part of it, worked out well. As far as the flow, I am not familiar with the Iwaki pumps. I used a reeflo pump for mine and have more than enough flow. Hey Beth!! My concern about ball valves is that some are so stiff as to make them almost unusable. Are the Lowes valves easy to turn/adjust? I am considering Spaflex? Spaflex is just the clear fiberglass reinforced plastic tubing, right? I have used this on plumbing before and found that I really had to watch the radius of my turns as the walls would tend to collapse some. I am also considering going with two pumps on my feed to the tanks. I already have two Iwaki 70's (one as a backup) and one 40. It would just mean getting another 40 as another backup. I would NEVER have a tank without having another fresh pump I could hot swap in! The 70's run about 1500gph and the 40 that I have runs about 800gph (?). My overflows can handle 1500 each. by the time I account for head loss. I am not looking for high sump turnover. I should be in the ballpark? I am still wondering about if I need to use 1 1/2" on the start of my return and up to the first wye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Here is a link to Spa Flex its PVC pipe, they sell it at home depot in 1" and up. I used ball valves and must have bought from different places as some turn easily and some are stiff enough I'm afraid to try and move them. I should have shelled out for a good one or a gate valve at the returm from my Dart at 2", thats where I would want to adjust the return flow, the 2" ball valve is pretty well frozen but I have valves on all the return lines so I can adjust there http://www.flexiblepvc.net/Flexible_PVC_Pipe_s/23.htm?gclid=CL37oL7JkKoCFRNhgwodLl89yw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Here is a link to Spa Flex its PVC pipe, they sell it at home depot in 1" and up. I used ball valves and must have bought from different places as some turn easily and some are stiff enough I'm afraid to try and move them. I should have shelled out for a good one or a gate valve at the returm from my Dart at 2", thats where I would want to adjust the return flow, the 2" ball valve is pretty well frozen but I have valves on all the return lines so I can adjust there http://www.flexiblepvc.net/Flexible_PVC_Pipe_s/23.htm?gclid=CL37oL7JkKoCFRNhgwodLl89yw Steve, Yeah, I've seen people wrongly identify the clear plastic tubing as Spaflex before. The internet problem; a lot of info some wrong. So it is just the opaque , ribbed tubing that is "Spaflex"? And it is glueable to pvc, abs? What do you think about separate pumps out of one sump and into two tanks? Do you think I need to go from 1" outlet on pump to 1 1/2" for a bit to reduce the possibility of cavitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Go check it out at Home depot, Its PVC pipe thats flexible and yes its compatiable with all pvc fittings. As long as the sump with hold all the drawdown from both tanks I dont think it makes a difference. I have two pumps just in case one fails I have still have one running on one tank, Reeflo dart for the manifold,returns and a panworld that just runs through the chiller/heater then returns to the tank Not sure if going bigger will benefit at all, have to ask a plumber! most go the other way, mine is 2" for the first foot or so, a ball valve then reduce to 1 1/4" for the manifold then 3/4" for the returns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyA Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 And it is glueable to pvc, abs? Do you think I need to go from 1" outlet on pump to 1 1/2" for a bit to reduce the possibility of cavitation. Not sure i would recommend glueing to abs as it has its own adhesive. ABS is slightly different than PVC and has its own way of bonding. Also i believe might be over kill to go from 1" to 1-1/2" especially if you use spa flex. My experience with spa flex its its not very flexible in confined areas in the 1-1/2" size. If your splitting return flow at the "Y" dual 1" would be good flow. Nice scetch btw, looks like your on the right track with pre-planning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanktop74 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Not sure i would recommend glueing to abs as it has its own adhesive. ABS is slightly different than PVC and has its own way of bonding. Also i believe might be over kill to go from 1" to 1-1/2" especially if you use spa flex. My experience with spa flex its its not very flexible in confined areas in the 1-1/2" size. If your splitting return flow at the "Y" dual 1" would be good flow. Nice scetch btw, looks like your on the right track with pre-planning Algea, I wouldnt worry about gluing ABS to PVC... I have done it... without any problems. I just used the glue that was for all three types, ABS, PVC and CPVC I think it was. They bonded together just fine. Tha true union ball valves at lowes work fine, I loosened them up, opening and closing them several times before I glued them together. Beth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Steve, Yeah, I've seen people wrongly identify the clear plastic tubing as Spaflex before. The internet problem; a lot of info some wrong. So it is just the opaque , ribbed tubing that is "Spaflex"? And it is glueable to pvc, abs? What do you think about separate pumps out of one sump and into two tanks? Do you think I need to go from 1" outlet on pump to 1 1/2" for a bit to reduce the possibility of cavitation. There is a spa/pool place over on 6th just past Garfield and right before the shopping center where Harbor Freight is that has spa flex. I don't think any of the hardware stores here in town carry it. Algea, I wouldnt worry about gluing ABS to PVC... I have done it... without any problems. I just used the glue that was for all three types, ABS, PVC and CPVC I think it was. They bonded together just fine. Tha true union ball valves at lowes work fine, I loosened them up, opening and closing them several times before I glued them together. Beth Yah you should be fine like Beth says, use the multipurpose glue. I use this glue anyways, it creates the hottest reaction and will melt any 2 pipes together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Steve's link has 1 1/2" American made flexible PVC for $150 for 100 ft. shipped. http://www.flexiblepvc.net/Flexible_PVC_Pipe_s/23.htm?gclid=CL37oL7JkKoCFRNhgwodLl89yw Home Depot, Eugene has a 50ft. roll for about $100. Jerry's has it for $3.22 ft.!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topher Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I would not mix pvc and abs plastics. two disimular plastics with different caractoristics and expansion/contraction rates. this can weaken and potentionally cause glue joint failour. best analogy people can walk on thin ice but sooner or later, someone will fall though. some people have problems glueing pvc to pvc. what are you tring to acomplish by increasing the pipeing size? you are just adding more water weight for the pump to have to overcome and the flow is slowed down. best to keep the pipe size the same till it is split off then down size at the split. this will keep the flow rate strong and not add back presure to the pump.(think abpout how much more water the 1 1/2 inch pipe can hold compared to the 1 inch pipe.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 I would not mix pvc and abs plastics. two disimular plastics with different caractoristics and expansion/contraction rates. this can weaken and potentionally cause glue joint failour. best analogy people can walk on thin ice but sooner or later, someone will fall though. some people have problems glueing pvc to pvc. what are you tring to acomplish by increasing the pipeing size? you are just adding more water weight for the pump to have to overcome and the flow is slowed down. best to keep the pipe size the same till it is split off then down size at the split. this will keep the flow rate strong and not add back presure to the pump.(think abpout how much more water the 1 1/2 inch pipe can hold compared to the 1 inch pipe.) Originally, I heard that you should not add restrictions within a couple of feet of a pump to reduce the chance of cavitation (although I have done it without problems before). So I was thinking of using just a foot or two of 1 1/2" and then necking down to 1". The major use of my 1 1/2" is going to be my overflow(s). 4 X 1 1/2" for the system. I am now thinking of using two pumps for return lines. One for each tank. My 60 would be fed by 3/4" and a true wye.and my 120 by 1" to 3/4" and true wye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfisher Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Wye does my head hear reading this? K.I.S.S. Don't you have a dog to walk? hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Wye does my head hear reading this? K.I.S.S. Don't you have a dog to walk? hehehe ROTF! And this from a guy that MUST hot rod a dust pan! Barooom, broom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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