lewisriverfisherman Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 It's not really a concrete brick, well i guess it is. Its concrete blocks that have been smashed up and made into live rock. Its been used for a year now so it is more like live rock. I used this in my sump, i stacked it all on top of each other so all the water has to flow thur it, it basicly keeps my macro algae from getting into my return pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCR Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 the main problem is detris buildup. A lot of fish can be kept, with constant cleaning. Not allowing it to settle and removing constantly. You can accomplish by BB tank and heavy flow around the rocks to keep it suspended. Flow to filter bags keeping them cleaned out. setup skimmer properly and skim wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gill Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Deep sand beds do work. My first set up was a 55, I had 0 nitrates for over a year!!! I guess that dosn't sound impressive until I mention I did no water changes. I know of tanks that are five years old and never had the water changed. You need a deep sand bed though, seven to eight inches if you really want to do it right. You also need to make sure there are no critters digging in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Noobs beware what I do in my tank may not work in yours. Brandon you know I have always talked about using Purigen and how IMO/IME it has helped keep my nitrates down. Another example (although I did not need to prove it to myself AGAIN) was the most recent 150 I have set up, I feed at least 3 cubes a day and as much as pellets as the fish will eat in 2 minutes-the CUC gets the rest, I have 13 fish nothing larger than my Kole tang. Anyway NO3 was running in the 15-20 range so I grabbed media bags from SWF filled them with the Purigen, threw it in the sock and present NO3 is .5 As I undesrtand it removes the organics before they can convert to NO3. Frankly I dont really care to understand what it does, the test kits show me it is doing something positive Say/think what you will, I have had plenty of people say it does not work, to that I say I am glad my tank is an anomoly It works for me, my tank looks better for using it-IME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stylaster Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 hey brandon, i also use the remote deep sand bucket, 5 gallon bucket filled with sand works like a charm, if you want to check it out stop on by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Here are a few pics of the RDSB that several people have mentioned. This one has changed slightly from the picture. Originally I used a Mag 2 pump to feed it however I changed it a week or two after it was in so it is gravity fed from a tee in the tank drain. Probably about 150 gph of flow going through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisriverfisherman Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 I would just like to thank eveyone for their words of wisdom!!! Thanks for the pic's of the dsb Rick I am really thinking about doing this for sure. I am also throwing around the idea of making a ATS (algae turf scrubber) in a 5 gal bucket as well, maybe i can stack them ontop of each other to save room:-). Has anyone run a ATS before, beside's dave which i sent him a pm? Any input on this system would be appreciated, it seem's like the only people that are really running them are ppl with FOWLR tanks where really water quality doesn't matter. Hey Rick what size are those uniseals? Are they 1" ? Where did you get them at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 ..... Hey Rick what size are those uniseals? Are they 1" ? Where did you get them at? 1/2". Most of the stores sell them. I don't recall offhand which store I got them from. Probably Seahorse. You don't need very big ones for this because it needs to be low flow to let the RDSB work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I went for a 1/2 for water in and 1 for water off. You want a strong flow in it. Filled up to almost the top with sand as fine as you can find. Possibly with a filter before the intake. The flow should be as fat as you can without blowing the sand. Sand can be just playsand from home depot or aragonite (for buffering) or a mix of the 2. You have to change 1/2 of the sand every 6 months or so. You may want to set up 2 of them if one is not doing enough, or a single 20 gallon tub. It really depends on the tank volume and bioload. This is what Antony Calfo is suggesting in many writings. There is also a 100+ pages thread on Reef central about it, but I think I told you all you have to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisriverfisherman Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 Well I decided to build one of these and see how they work. Here are a few pictures of my RDSB. I used a little black paint on the side close to the tank and painted the lid black as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Looks great. I'm thinking about adding a second one to mine. (I have an identical area on the opposite side of my sump) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barelycuda Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Brandon, I have run every one you have mentioned. Vodka, Sugar, RDSB, Bio Pellets, ATS, Sulfur Denitrator, you name it I have probably tried it. In my experience nothing has worked as well as the bio pellets. I had over 150 fish in the new growout system that I did one water change on in 4 months while cycling. After 4 months the nitrates were about 20ppm. That I thought was incredible since my nitrates out of the tap are about 10ppm and I evaporate 3-5g a day into that system. I did not have very good luck with the RDSB. The ATS can work but for your size system you will need one much larger than will fit in a 5g bucket. Check out http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/ they have a ton of information on turf scrubbers. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisriverfisherman Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 thank you Rick I was also wondering if I should add another as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisriverfisherman Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 Thanks for the info as well Dave. Hum i guess when i get a job i will have to get some pellets.(scratch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barelycuda Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I am just offering up what I have had experience with. The others have their place also. For me in an extremely highly stocked system the biopellets are by far the most effective. I am going to be setting back up the ATS for both systems here shortly tho. Not so much for the Nitrate reduction as I noticed a huge difference in algae accumulation on the ATS instead of the tanks when using one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I think that for a reef tank a well build and sized RDSB ca do wonders for a fraction of the cost and risk compared to biopellets. We don't feed as much as a fish only tank or a fish breeding setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitterbait Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I will disagree with some of you but oh well. Sand beds are not a good/safe choice IMO/IME for a few reasons. 1) they trap waste and the goal to reduce nitrate and phosphate is to remove waste BEFORE it has a chance to break down in the water column and create these problems (BTW, this is also a problem with algae scrubbers and refugiums, trapping waste and holding it in the water) 2) in the event of a low flow situation (power outage/pump problem) a deep sand bed will eat all the oxygen in the tank very fast and then go toxic. this is why you usually only see a sand filter on large commercial systems with backup generators. 3) the bacteria that populate a sand bed will also make it necessary for you to buffer your water more to keep up with demand my suggestion is the same as it has always been, high flow with large efficient skimming. if you use filter socks make sure to change them every day within 20 min of feeding to remove the waste. stop the nitrate issue before it has a chance to enter the cycle and become nitrate (or phosphate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitterbait Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 or you could always reduce your fish amount :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I will disagree with some of you but oh well. Sand beds are not a good/safe choice IMO/IME for a few reasons. 1) they trap waste and the goal to reduce nitrate and phosphate is to remove waste BEFORE it has a chance to break down in the water column and create these problems (BTW, this is also a problem with algae scrubbers and refugiums, trapping waste and holding it in the water) 2) in the event of a low flow situation (power outage/pump problem) a deep sand bed will eat all the oxygen in the tank very fast and then go toxic. this is why you usually only see a sand filter on large commercial systems with backup generators. 3) the bacteria that populate a sand bed will also make it necessary for you to buffer your water more to keep up with demand my suggestion is the same as it has always been, high flow with large efficient skimming. if you use filter socks make sure to change them every day within 20 min of feeding to remove the waste. stop the nitrate issue before it has a chance to enter the cycle and become nitrate (or phosphate). We were referring to remote deep sand beds, not the deep sand bed in the tank. I agree with you for the cons of a sand bed in the tank. Nitrate cannot become phosphate. The nitrogen cycle and phosphorus cycle are two different things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitterbait Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I never said they were the same thing, but both are created by waste going through its cycles. and a remote DSB is just as dangerous because it will eat all the oxygen even faster than the tank and will go toxic. then when the water starts flowing again it will send the toxicity to your tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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