Closed loop system help.

[OwenReefin]

This will probably come across as sad, but I have acquired a tank pre-drilled and plumbed and I don't know how to set it up. :(

 

 

So from what I gather there are 4 outlets and the lower middle is the input to the closed loop system and the top is an overflow to the sump.

 

This is what the end of the input from the CL looks like, what is the T part suppose to go to? Or does it allow me to pump from the sump into the closed loop system?

This is a closer look at the end part.

 

I can get more detailed pictures. I'm sorry for this confusion, I thought it would be self explanatory. I place I got it doesn't know the original owner and never set it up. Hope this doesn't make me out to look too dumb.

[Rick]

Odd, Usually the sump and the closed loop are separate. I don't see a return for the sump though. The center middle is almost certainly the closed loop feed and the 4 outer ones the closed loop returns. While they may have had the sump fed into the closed loop it's not a very good idea as it requires a check valve for power outages and could allow the tank to drain if the valve failed.

[ReeFit]

probably for quick drainage to do water changes. i've seen people plumb them in like that.

[Rick]

Probably right. That is a QD on the end there.

[OwenReefin]

Ya i was wondering the same thing, that there wasn't a return from the sump. So the T'd off part is for water changes, not for a return from the sump? Hmmm.

[Rick]

Is there another return up higher somewhere?

[OwenReefin]

No return drilled at least, maybe the person who created it did an over the back thing. Would you know what kind of gph pump I would need for input 1-1/2 and 4, 1-1/4 outputs? Crazy.

[reef165]

prob a snaper I would say

[Chief]

I have been running a closed loop system for a number of years. This is not plumbed as a closed loop. You have a drain to the sump, but no return. My advice would be to plumb a return line. A closed loop system with a sump consists of 4 components. An inlet (or set of inlets) to the CL pump, a set of outlets from the CL pump back to the display. That is the closed loop. Then you need a drain from the display to the sump and a separate pump to pump water back to the display.

 

My advice would be to remove the section of pipe below the union that has the tee, ball valve and nipple and plumb in a close loop pump to the inlet and outlet pipes ( 1 1/2" pipes ). Then plumb in a return line through a new hole (bulkhead). Is this a glass or acrylic tank?

 

Here is a pic of my setup and the plans that I used to set it up.

 

 

 

I changed the Dolphin 8800 (way too much flow) for a Reeflo Barracuda.

 

Jay

[OwenReefin]

It is a glass tank. Ok so remove the T with the nipple part so that it is truly closed looped. I need to create my own return to the tank? I think I'm piecing it together. I'll look into a snapper pump, plan to keep up to sps eventually, is a snapper good enough flow?

 

Thanks for working with me, what would be the disadvantage to keeping the T'd part with the nipple? Failure?

[Chief]

It is a glass tank. Ok so remove the T with the nipple part so that it is truly closed looped. I need to create my own return to the tank? I think I'm piecing it together. I'll look into a snapper pump, plan to keep up to sps eventually, is a snapper good enough flow?

 

Thanks for working with me, what would be the disadvantage to keeping the T'd part with the nipple? Failure?

 

You would be restricting flow from the wrong end of the pump. If you need to restrict/cut the flow from the pump, you want to do it on the return side. Restricting flow on the inlet side is bad for the pump and may cause cavitation. How big is the tank and what is the flow rating on the snapper?

 

Jay

[OwenReefin]

Ah ok I see. I don't have a pump yet, just looking into what I need for this system before I buy one. It's a 40 breeder. I've pretty much only have tank/plumbing/sump and will be buying pumps and everything else as I learn whats needed for what and where/how it goes. What gph snapper would be good for a 40b?

[Rick]

There isn't anything wrong with keeping the T there as long as it's just used as a drain for water changes. It isn't there to restrict the flow but rather to have a low point that is easy to tap into for draining water. Just be sure there are valves on both sides of the pump and above the T that will allow you to cut the closed loop pump completely out and remove it for maintenance.

 

Regarding GPH for the closed loop I would shoot for about 3600 or maybe 4800 gph.

 

As mentioned earlier it really needs another bulkhead added for the sump return which should be a separate system.

[Rick]

Ah ok I see. I don't have a pump yet' date=' just looking into what I need for this system before I buy one. It's a 40 breeder. I've pretty much only have tank/plumbing/sump and will be buying pumps and everything else as I learn whats needed for what and where/how it goes. What gph snapper would be good for a 40b?[/quote']

 

1 1/2" plumbing in a 40b? Wow. That's a bit overkill I think. Cut the figures for flow I made above in half. The inner dimensions of the 40b aren't big enough to soak up that kind of flow.

[OwenReefin]

Ya I was thinking they were pretty large for this tank. I'll try and modify it. As for another bulkhead, sounds good.

[ReeFit]

that all looks like 1" and 1/2" plumbing to me.

[OwenReefin]

From the picture it is kinda hard to tell but the top is the overflow box, that is a 1". The one below it is the input to the closed loop system and it is 1.5". The four outputs to the cl are all 1.25".

[OwenReefin]

Is it wise to convert the 1.25" piping down to 3/4. and the 1.5 to 1" ? or is doing this gonna mess with it too much? I'm thinking cheaper pump here, and less bulky piping.

[Rick]

Is it wise to convert the 1.25" piping down to 3/4. and the 1.5 to 1" ? or is doing this gonna mess with it too much? I'm thinking cheaper pump here' date=' and less bulky piping.[/quote']

 

On the return pump from the sump it probably is. It will reduce the amount of water that needs to be pushed up to the tank so there will be less head loss. Just be sure the drain can handle the pump volume. On the closed loop it isn't going to make too much difference in pressure loss. I.E. While it isn't necessarily wise to do so it also shouldn't hurt anything either as long as your pumps match whatever the smallest diameter of the plumbing is.

[OwenReefin]

Cool thanks.

[ReeFit]

i would slap a 2000-2500gph pump on that closed loop and then do something around 900-1200 on the return in the sump.

[Rick]

i would slap a 2000-2500gph pump on that closed loop and then do something around 900-1200 on the return in the sump.

 

That's about what I was thinking. Everything could stay the way it is except for adding a return bulkhead for the sump pump.

[OwenReefin]

Ya decided to go with what you guys said and picked up a cheap snapper pump for 100. What kind of return pump we talking here? Submersible, and hopefully not as big as the snapper... It is a 1" overflow, so what kind of gph pump, 900 like you suggested?

 

 

Also I need to start figuring out what type of skimmer would work, that doesn't blow my budget.

[Rick]

Ya decided to go with what you guys said and picked up a cheap snapper pump for 100. What kind of return pump we talking here? Submersible, and hopefully not as big as the snapper... It is a 1" overflow, so what kind of gph pump, 900 like you suggested?

 

 

Also I need to start figuring out what type of skimmer would work, that doesn't blow my budget.

 

It depends a bit on the brand. A Gen-X 4100 (kind of a budget brand a lot of the stores carry) comes out to just under 1100 gph yet it looses enough head that a 1" drain will handle the flow. On the other hand a Mag 9.5 (950 gph) will flow just a bit more at that height even though the gph is lower with no head height (a 1" drain will still handle the flow). If you can find the Mag 9.5 at a decent price I would go with it. For other pumps check the head loss chart on them and shoot for about 750 gph at the head height for your system which is approx. what a 1" drain can handle. (I have personal experience with the two I mentioned and know it will handle both of them)

 

For that tank a skimmer rated about 75 gallons should work.