reefnjunkie Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I looked in my tank today to see one of my nicest acro frags totally white-like it got dipped in acid-or like the one acro that fell and landed in my acan-melted it to the base. Yesterday it was looking great-today 95% dead-the only thing I did or that was new was I placed a sunset monti that I fragged about 2 inches from it- could it have relaesed toxins that did that??? I mean the monti was pissed but really now-I have never had that happen before-its was like 12 hour RTN-:eek: Any ideas on the 12 hour melt away??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf86123 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Ouch Brad, sorry bro, I have no clue what coulda caused it, but let's hope we can get it figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Sorry man, but it happens :-( Was it a fresh cut frag or was it encrusting? RTN is just that... rapid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USCG CWO Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 IMHO SPS are just to darn picky and die just to torture us. I lost a softball sized purple acro colony last week over night for no good reason. I'd had it for almost a year. Everything else was fine. I wouldn't think putting a monti next to the acro frag would have killed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-3 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Yeah sounds like RTN. It can go quick like Andy said. Look on the bright side at least know you have a frag of Andys LE Uber White Lightning SPS (laugh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 Sorry man' date=' but it happens :-( Was it a fresh cut frag or was it encrusting? RTN is just that... rapid.[/quote'] Nope not a fresh cut at least the acro wasn't it was on a disc with 2 others. The monti was fragged yesterday as well as 2 nice setosa frags. those were the closest "new items" Ive had RTN and think I know what those signs or whats left looks like-this was like a total white wash-Its was my ORA Purple Nana-the one Ciao wanted but I wanted to keep it and am selling him the smaller one. I don't know enough about it, but I know SPS ( at least I think) can let out or off some toxins-sort of a defense so other corals now that is there area. Well as everyone who frags knows, when you cut the piece it leaves a slimy film where the cut was-I am wondering (and thinking) if this is what caused it-it had to have been-deductive reasoning. I'll post a pic after dinner for shiites and giggles, maybe that might help. I'm sure Ciao is glad its not the piece he ended up with or will get Friday. Oh did anyone catch the part of the Setosa frags- This was in a 12 hour period Before; and after; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltfinsax Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Look at the Monti tonight again and see if its putting out some little harry stuff to protect it's self. I know my purple polyp Monti does that and kills everything withing a 1/4" of it, even the macro algae dies from it. Other then that I have no idea. Sometimes Acro's just piss you off when that happens, but somehow its still our fault I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 Those frags have been on that disc for weeks-its all the new frags that are 'whats different" Hopefully someone has some idea regarding the "toxin" idea I had or what ever that stuff is we see after we hack off a limb- There is a chance it may come back-its not heading to the garbage for at least a week or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciao Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 (laugh) Well you can't blame me for being glad it wasn't the piece your going to sell me! Sorry to hear about the loss of that frag though. It looked really nice. Is the other thicker piece ok then? By the way, what is that other piece on that same disc? Nope not a fresh cut at least the acro wasn't it was on a disc with 2 others. The monti was fragged yesterday as well as 2 nice setosa frags. those were the closest "new items" Ive had RTN and think I know what those signs or whats left looks like-this was like a total white wash-Its was my ORA Purple Nana-the one Ciao wanted but I wanted to keep it and am selling him the smaller one. I don't know enough about it, but I know SPS ( at least I think) can let out or off some toxins-sort of a defense so other corals now that is there area. Well as everyone who frags knows, when you cut the piece it leaves a slimy film where the cut was-I am wondering (and thinking) if this is what caused it-it had to have been-deductive reasoning. I'll post a pic after dinner for shiites and giggles, maybe that might help. I'm sure Ciao is glad its not the piece he ended up with or will get Friday. Oh did anyone catch the part of the Setosa frags- This was in a 12 hour period Before; and after; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonH Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I don't think it could have been the sunset. Monti's aren't really aggressive - they don't have sweeper tentacles and they aren't big slimers when frag'ed. If they were touching maybe - but even then a full rtn would surprise me. I've had a sunset bump into another corals frag and burn a good sized space - but only when they came into direct contact and only a portion of the other coral/frag. Any other changes - addition of any new fitler media (e.g. phosban), or a water change? That's too fast a change for pests, or lighting/flow issues. That sucks - sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 RTN isn't a disease, it's a syndrome... a set of symptoms and result. If an SPS sheds all its flesh in a few hours, it's RTN (Rapid Tissue Necrosis); if it takes a few days, it's STN (Slow Tissue Necrosis). The big question is what caused the RTN or STN. From what I've been able to find, the cause of RTN is very often a bacterial (often vibrio) infection [playing around on google or scholar.google.com will turn up a bunch of papers on the topic]. So what causes a bacterial infection in coral? Probably the same things that does in people... injury, stress, poor nutrition, genetics, bad luck, sunspots, gamma rays, etc. Not that any of this really helps much. One paper I read pointed out that the strain of vibrio that lead to the RTN under study was a type that is normally present in/on the coral -- in fact, it was a critical part of the colony's microfauna that just happened to start uncontrolled reproduction. Remove the bacteria? Coral gets sick and dies. Too much? Coral gets sick and dies. IMO, and YMMV, these things are just part of taking really complex creatures out of their natural environment and putting them in a box of water in the living room. Or, stated differently, **** happens (sad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 Nope nothing really new-I suppose I could mention a water change on Saturday but I dont factor that in. The only reason I thought it may have been a fresh cut frag is this the only thing "different" (other than the water change), I fragged 8 pieces yesterday, granted the only onee close were the Sunset and a few inches away(4 or so) were the 2 setosa's, a new frag of a Blue Milli. I know stuff happens on a whim and with no explanation in this hobby, but its such a coincidence that for weeks all is good, I make a bunch of frags and then the "meltdown". I have no proof, nothing to lead me to that reason, its all a mystery-crap occurs (**** happens) I am more bothered by not knowing [language filter] than I am about a small frag. Ciao that other frag is something I grabbed from wegots or something like that-I think its Wegots-he is in OC. I just don't have a place yet for it, plus I am letting it heal after taking the dremmel and cutting away the bottom of the golf tee-I could not pop it loose so I cut the tee right below the acro. The 3rd piece from the Nana got mounted Sunday-alls good with that one, and the one you are getting-. I have RTN on different pieces that one night al is good the next day 2/3rds of a branch gone or 1/2 the base, but never the entire piece-granted it was only 1.25 inches anyway-(laugh) Another mystery- I was really hoping to read something like "Yea you idiot, when you make fresh cuts/frags, they release blah blah blah and as a result your frag is dead now-dumass"-DOH! LOL oh well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf86123 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 do you dip them after you frag? I've read of people dipping corals as soon as their fragged, maybe that can help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 do you dip them after you frag? I've read of people dipping corals as soon as their fragged' date=' maybe that can help?[/quote'] Im not sure why you'd dip after fragging, maybe for stress reduction- I do dip but thats initially for parasites??? But like I mentioned, these were not fresh frags they are weeks old-I made new frags that were close. The RTN mystery-I have had branches disappear over night, which is basically all I had-one small branch-LOL Dang that sucker had some sweet color-I still have the largest of the three, Ciao is buying the one that's left IF I DONY KILL IT in the next 4 days- Sorry Ciao-just kidding LOLOLOLOLOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf86123 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 hey, it can't hurt, right? lol and i bet its gonna mysteriously "die" in say 3 and a half days LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciao Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Dang, maybe I should get there ASAP then! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 Dang' date=' maybe I should get there ASAP then! LOL[/quote'] LOL-your fine (I think) I hope lightning does not strike twice. That stuff we ordered will be here Friday so I am not sure when you wanted to grab your stuff-Shoot me a PM Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Re: Over night-Really are you kidding me??? do you dip them after you frag? I've read of people dipping corals as soon as their fragged, maybe that can help? Im not sure why you'd dip after fragging... i dip after fragging because i think it helps with the healing process and its almost like giving them some steroids or adrenalin after surgery.... i have fragged and not dipped and frags will open same day but within a week or so i have a polyp or more lost when i dip after fragging they wont open that day, but i seldom have loss or long term affects. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Re: Over night-Really are you kidding me??? tell you what...i am going to do some fragging either today or tomorrow and i will cut 2 frags and only dip one....then post some updates. they are going to be zoas though....just so you know Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 Cool it would be an interesting case study-I will have some zoos to frag in about a year-(clap) LMAO In hind sight-I dont know why I used the dremmel on the Setosa, I could have gotten by with the bone shears. It caused a little tissue loss, but these are not your typical 1/2 " or less frags 1 inch easy and plenty of nubs-40.00 will be a steal-IMO WHEN they are healed and growing. I've seen them sell for more than that for less than half of what I will be getting rid of-Need to fund that 220 gallon in wall!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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