andy Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I don't know... I'm not sure you've got to the bottom of this. If you have to struggle and do an A/B compare to see the copper register on the test kit, I'm sceptical it's your problem -- it's not like *any* copper at all is instantly deadly. The fact that your Hermits are fine hints at another problem. I'd keep investigating before doing anything drastic. You might try adding a couple of shrimp or emerald crabs to some of your tank water in a quarintine tank and see how they do (shrimp and crabs are *very* vulnerable to copper; if they handle your tank better than the snails, that suggests the problem lies elsewhere) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopens Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 i have added 2 shrimp over the past couple months and they both died within 2 days. one was a cleaner shrimp and the other was a fire shrimp. i have been trying to figure this out for 2 months. i have posted tons of threads on many boards. but no answers have helped. i have been told that hermit crabs are a bit hardier than snails and shrimp. thats why they are fine. again there was only a tiny tiny tiny trace of copper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefboy Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 ive seen hermits in fully coppered tanks and live quite a long time so dont go by them like jmanroe said check your water sources when you redo this and i use corallife and as you can see in my forum have no probs other then i boost ph and mag for water changes it tends to be low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopens Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 whats your thoughts on plumbing. should i replace all my plumbing (bulkheads, and pipes) to be safe. i just want to cover all my bases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Clean them with vinegar... outside the tank where you can, but don't get vinegar in the tank. Well no more than a teaspoon or less it will affect your ph. I use vinegar on my QT to treat with copper and then clean and use on my invert tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefboy Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 if its not glued in do what nyles said but a good rinse will be fine so you dont have to replum if glued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronjunior Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I had a thought while trying to sleep last night; have you ever dumped a fish in the tank with the water from the bag after aclimation? If so, the store may used copper or the shipping companies as well. Also, with your snails, have you tried dripping them, or do you just toss them in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopens Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 i have not dumoed lfs water in my tank. i have not done the drip method on the snails, but i do the cup method.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanz Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 i have not dumoed lfs water in my tank. i have not done the drip method on the snails' date=' but i do the cup method..[/quote'] What's the cup method? Yeah, try the drip method, and maybe do it for 3 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronjunior Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 What's the cup method? Yeah' date=' try the drip method, and maybe do it for 3 hours.[/quote'] Exactly! I would try this simple and cost effective method....with a few different type of snails as well before doing anything drastic like ripping everything apart. Like I said in chat the other night, I have a new tank as well and snails don't like me, but I also didn't do the 3 hour drip either like I should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopens Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 i agree that the drip system is better. but out of aprox. 100 snails, not one has lasted more than an hour. you would think that is the acclimation was the problem, that atleast one would last. besides, my lfs does the cup method with these same snails, and they all do great. i will be doing the drip method from here on oujt, but i highly dought that is 100% the problem. trust me, i don't want to drop all this money either. but the only conclusion i can come up with is that this tiny bit of copper is the culpret... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 3 hour drip? Yowza, thought I was overdoing it at 1 hour. To bring the temp up, you float the container in the sump while dripping from the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Most of the snails I recieve are sent dry and then I just dump them in the tanks after a little rinse to get the crud off. I would say that there is something out of wack in your tank. What type of Salt are you using? I had one customer one time that couldn't keep anything alive in the tank water tested just fine. She got a little sand out of someone elses tank and it fixed everything. Weirdest thing I have ever seen. Are there any other invertebrates in there besides the snails? What type of snails have you tried to add to the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronjunior Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 3 hour drip? Yowza' date=' thought I was overdoing it at 1 hour. To bring the temp up, you float the container in the sump while dripping from the tank?[/quote']For fish, I usually float them while getting a bucket within a bucket ready. Setup the air hose, dump fish in small bucket/container and start dripping about 6 drops/sec; the overflow falls into the bigger bucket beneath. (hang it from a stick or I use a juice container to prop the fish container on. Dump about 1/3 of the fish's water after 1 hour, drip 'til overflows again and repeat steps for about 3 hours. I know Joel does this in a similar fashion too. Many LFS keep fish only tanks around SG of .019 to keep the disease down. (LFS guys can pipe in here if I'm wrong). I figure, the less stress to a fish the better when reefers are running around .023 and higher. Many inverts are much more sensitive than fish from what I've researched, especially clams. To test the salt as SeanF is questioning, I'd try setting up a small container with air and freshly mixed water and see if they last more than an hour. (Gopens was saying last night that crabs are fine in the tank) If lasting a long time, try adding water from your tank into that container. Maybe make a 2nd test container with water from your tank to see if it's the water or something else in your tank killing them. Like I was saying last night, maybe you're tank doesn't have enough food for them to survive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronjunior Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Was just reading info on Dr. FS for their Astrae snails....what about your nitrates? "The Astraea Conehead Snail will do well in an aquarium if provided with ample hiding places and sufficient room to roam. An aquarium with live rock is preferable so that it can graze on the algae. It will also graze on algae on the side of the tank. In addition, it eats cyanobacteria and diatoms. If it falls, it is often unable to right itself, and will need the aquarist to place it upright, again. It is sensitive to high levels of copper-based medications and will not tolerate high nitrate levels." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopens Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 se thats my concern. its says a "high lever of copper". again, i have only a hint of it. and like i said before, the only way to tell it had any blue was to compare my copper test and my lfs copper level. barely and blue on mine. infact 1 of the 3 people looking at my test said he did not see any color change. he said it looked crystal clear to him. i do have some nitrates (if i remember correctly, it was aroun 20). i have decided to do some water changes and not yet change my rock and substrate. in fact i have cosidered keeping this a FO tank. i plane on getting a new set up this spring. we will see. thanks to all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronjunior Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Just a thought to clean things up a little, run a powerhead to clean the junk off all the rocks, then do your water change therefore removing some of the junk that was floating in the water. You said you're doing a few water changes, so maybe do it each time. Personally, I'm doing this now, but having my canister filter clean the junk out each time I clean the rock, but will do the same with the ph when doing my major water change in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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