ReefMe Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I have been following the promotions of this amazing production vehicle and it is finally coming to Oregon. I am going to try to get one when they are avaiable next year, hope the line is not too long! It is now at the OMSI until Sunday then Washington Square for two days. Read about it at this link and the Nissan site - finally, an all electric vehicle that will do the job and is affordable!(clap)(clap)(clap)(clap)(clap) Oregonian http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2009/12/post_33.html Oregonian http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2009/12/electric_avenue_test_drive_a_n.html Nissan Leaf Site http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/?dcp=ppn.39666654.&dcc=0.216878497#/car/intro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwcoralfarm Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Yes, hopefully this one won't be pulled like the last ones have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefMe Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Infrastructure From what I have read Nissan is putting a lot of $ behind it and making charging station available nationwide, it looks well thought out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwcoralfarm Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Well the problem last time was not improper planning it was lack of money being made for large oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefMe Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Subsidies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moovinfast Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I remember last the last time. You couldn't even buy the all electric cars, but only lease them. And soon as the lease was up, they crushed them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefMe Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Data, Analysis and ? That was the EV1 I believe, Ford owned? Here is a great comparative study of current Electric vehicles: http://www.hybridcars.com/electric-car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrd Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Quoted from OregonLive "a driving range of 100 miles between charges" Thats got to be a deal killer, are they targetting people who live in cities and dont go anywhere? Batteries....I was joking with someone about reducing my carbon footprint when my loaner/rental was a Prius, the Enterprise guy snapped back-"Ya if they new what to do with the batteries" I told him I was being sarcastic but I found it interesting- I will wait for the version that allows you to strap an Elk/Deer on the back and still have leg room. Nice looking though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 We have charging stations downtown already. I do love the idea but I wish they made the cars more visually pleasing, and I realize there is allot of research done to be able to make the car but they don't need to try and make that up right out the gate! More would be willing to own one if the cost was at least close to an average car. As it is now the savings don't really kick in till like the 6th year of owning a hybrid. I hope the electric cars will be competitive price wise. I realize its more of the environment thing but most of the time the initial cost is what scares allot away from the greener things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonH Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Yeah the cost is always the problem. So far, they can't make a "green" car that is a cost benefit vs a gas car. Toyota loses money on every pious (whoops, Prius) they sell. This car is much more expensive than it's gas counterpart (offset by tax subsidies - thanks govt for stealing more of my money to help pay for someone else's car). In this case, the car seems to cost about 1.5x to 2x the price of a similar gas-powered car. It's get's 40 miles for the electrical cost of about $3 - about the same as a sedan going 40 miles on gas. So cost neutral on fuel source after spending 2x for the car. And, as the oregonian surprisingly points out, generating that electricity is done by burning coal. And as has been mentioned, what do we do with the batteries? I'd love to see an honest assessment (not from Al Gore) of the long term environmental impact of this car - including manufacturing, electrical generation, and end of life. Also, as Oregon switches from coal to (much) more expensive green sources, the cost to recharge these vehicles could increase significantly. And, it's not reasonable that a person could own ONLY this car - what if they need to drive more than 100 miles? They have to pull over for 26 minutes to recharge? So, most people that buy this car will have it as a second or third car. There was a survey recently that found the average household income of a hybrid car owner is $113K. These are the people my tax money is subsidizing? (steps of soap box) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Yes, very good points! When I was looking into building an electric car I found many ways to generate electricity as in solar, wind and hydro. yes the do make small wind turbines to power your home with ( at least charge batteries to do so) and what amazed me is they have hydro turbines that will power your house with a 2 inch inlet and there only needs to be 5 foot drop ( i believe it was 5) for the water to turn the turbines. I even saw one car a guy build and spent 80k on a solar pannel paintjob that trippled the miles he could go, of course it was day driving and way more $ than the average guy could do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 And, as the oregonian surprisingly points out, generating that electricity is done by burning coal. And as has been mentioned, what do we do with the batteries? I'd love to see an honest assessment (not from Al Gore) of the long term environmental impact of this car - including manufacturing, electrical generation, and end of life. These assesments have been done although they are not widely available. In the Pacific Northwest we have a large amount of Hydro Power but the fact remains that the US is primarily powered using coal which is more harmful to the environment than gasoline. (They just put the coal plants where most don't see the polution they add to the air) Additionally the environmental impact of manufacturing the batteries is greater than the impact of gasoline due to the chemicals used to build them and the shipping involved (most don't know they get shipped overseas and back using diesel burning ships that also polute the environment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonH Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 In the Pacific Northwest we have a large amount of Hydro Power ...Which unfortunately is being ripped out left and right. This thing about alt fuel vehicles, is that they need to be practical and cost efficient. One can hold up a political ideology as a reason to convert. But until it's cost efficient and practical (i.e. don't have to wait 26 minutes while your car recharges) it just won't get widespread adoption - which ironically is one key to making it more cost effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Ya, it's a catch 22. more people need to buy the greener stuff for the price to drop but the price needs to drop so more can buy them. I don't think that 26 min is a long time to wait to recharge, could do that over dinner or? but they just need to make the miles per charge higher, even if it was 200 miles per charge would be a HUGE improvement. I don't understand why they couldn't make the wheel hubs into alternators so as the car moves the 4 alternators could charge the batteries at least to give ya the extra MPC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 ... I don't understand why they couldn't make the wheel hubs into alternators so as the car moves the 4 alternators could charge the batteries at least to give ya the extra MPC. If I recall right they already use them as generators used for stopping however this still only returns a small amount of what is spent to keep the tires turning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 This thing about alt fuel vehicles' date=' is that they need to be practical and cost efficient. One can hold up a political ideology as a reason to convert. But until it's cost efficient and practical (i.e. don't have to wait 26 minutes while your car recharges) it just won't get widespread adoption - which ironically is one key to making it more cost effective.[/quote'] This still leaves out the question as to whether or not the environmental impact is less or greater than gasoline. On the surface it has the appearance of being lower impact while neglecting to take into account the impact of electricity which is currently pretty bad along with the manufacturing of the batteries which is even worse. Personally I want to see them put the same efforts into developing viable hydrogen solutions. Hydrogen would have a lower impact on the environment (almost none after they are manufactured) than either electricity or gasoline and wouldn't have the same limitations (I.E. 100 miles before a recharge). It would take some development to get to this point as there are still some issues to work through but I believe that if there was enough focus those issues could be solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I will stick with my 68 impala that gets 9 mpg on premium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefMe Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Cost $19,000 isn't all that harsh, that's what it comes out to with the tax break from the Fed and may be even more from the state. (clap)(clap)(clap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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