huskerduck Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 How many actually do this with success? I bet I read 30 articles about it and it seems they dont mesh up and everyone is just slightly different. The one thing Im not sure about is the amount, several list start with .5ml per 25 gallons but as I read posts everywhere else they say they dose .5 daily or twice a day, now are they forgetting the PER 25 gallons or is this just a know fact? So say I have 150 gallons and 30 gal in the sump would this mean I dose .5 x 7? Also I read alot about V/s/v but I swear I read somewhere that a scientist said theres no science behind it and passed it off as voodoo needing the sugar and vinegar. Also some are doing other additives with this and its a pretty substaintial difference in the products, is there anything YOU MUST ADD or blow up the eco system? I have the Phosban reactor and a sizeable wad (1/2 a 5 gallon bucket) of Chaeto (sp?) in my sump ........do you leave these in, or take them out? some do.... some dont. Some people have incredible results ( one guy was getting inches a month on his sps, some see no results months into the process. Has anyone here run VSV with outstanding results and is positive the results are from the VSV and not just doing weekly water changes or something else. Did you actually stop dosing, see negative results, then start back up with positive results? Some people shut down their skimmer for 6 hours after dosing, some dont, some add $100.00 ( per 8) bacteria bottles every 2 weeks , some dont. The Alk thing has me baffled as well, my Calcium reactor keeps my tank at high levels along with Calcium at high levels, I have read where most who VSV drop their Alk down to lower levels but with no explaination of why If youre confident your method works could you list your paramaters , how big your tank and sump is and how much you dose, also any additive and feeding and how much feeding. Also when you feed is it spot feeding or just dump it in. Does doing a 15% water change a week do the same thing or achieve the same result? Is there enough in water changes alone to grow out Sps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralreefer Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 All good questions... I run "hybrid" zeovit system... While I don't run zeolith stones/reactor, I run Elos stones in mesh bag in sump. I dose ZEObac in am and MB7 in pm... I run ca reactor/drip kalk...no fuge...phosban reactor--yes... I dose VSV twice daily...have for 6 months...after years of fighting high nitrates/phosphates, VSV has finally brought them down to zero... I am (today) switching from sugar to dextrose in hopes of bettering coral colors... Biggest points to make are...make sure you know what you hope to accomplish with dosing, are prepared to be patient and are prepared to go slow...I have a similar sized tank and sump and dose (liter bottle) one capful Vodka twice daily and 4cc of vinegar/sugar mixture twice daily. I would initially use the guide in reefcentral..."dosing vodka...distilled" for starting dosage and google vsv in glassbox for vsv dosage... Don't stop any reactors until you have zero parameters and no bad algae and then watch carefully and go slowly. I am sure if I reread your question I didn't answer all of them... DrMerle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralreefer Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 high alkalinity with vsv dosing causes burnt tips on corals...natural seawater alkalinity runs ~7.5...ULNS with higher alkalinity pushes growth and abnormal calcification takes place... DrMerle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerduck Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 So MB7 being this? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3975+19615&pcatid=19615 What is your alkalinity? was it high from calcium reactor, is it lower now, or did the dosing lower it naturally? So am I understanding that you are basically "creating" bacteria (food) for the corals whilst also creating bacteria that dissolves nitrates and phosphates? Also I am wondering if you pull out the Chaeto before dosing, or watch it and see if it dies in which case I would do a " who wants free chaeto " thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 All good questions... I run "hybrid" zeovit system... While I don't run zeolith stones/reactor, I run Elos stones in mesh bag in sump. I dose ZEObac in am and MB7 in pm... I run ca reactor/drip kalk...no fuge...phosban reactor--yes... I dose VSV twice daily...have for 6 months...after years of fighting high nitrates/phosphates, VSV has finally brought them down to zero... I am (today) switching from sugar to dextrose in hopes of bettering coral colors... Biggest points to make are...make sure you know what you hope to accomplish with dosing, are prepared to be patient and are prepared to go slow...I have a similar sized tank and sump and dose (liter bottle) one capful Vodka twice daily and 4cc of vinegar/sugar mixture twice daily. I would initially use the guide in reefcentral..."dosing vodka...distilled" for starting dosage and google vsv in glassbox for vsv dosage... Don't stop any reactors until you have zero parameters and no bad algae and then watch carefully and go slowly. I am sure if I reread your question I didn't answer all of them... DrMerle Thank you for this information. Very intresting if you visit the vsv page. I have been doseing vodka for 2 months now. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrd Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Did you actually stop dosing, see negative results? Some people shut down their skimmer for 6 hours after dosing. Make sure you have a great skimmer-all I can attribute the death of what I had die is the skimmer did not do its job. I am sure in those 30+ readings there had to be a few that stressed the importance of a good skimmer-Which according to all the reviews mine was. I did the twice a day method outlined in the thread coralreefer mentioned- Anyway-my goal was reducing NO3 lower than the 20-25 I was seeing with my 20% H2O changes every other week. I have accomplished that-current NO3 level- .01 Good luck-I'll never be an advocate for Vodka dosing, because.. IF it does not work like it is supposed to, and there are times (I sure you read) that it does not, well things dies. Hats off to all you vodka dosers- glad its working for ya!!! My Purigen accomplishes the same thing and I don't have to add it every single day-(laugh) I have actually gone 6 weeks without a water change feeding daily and my NO3 is still .01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I added vodka and MB7 to my regular maintenance. I still do weekly 15% WCs, i still run carbon and phosban. I skim normally and I add 1ml vodka as well as 3-5 drops MB7 per day. The 7th day after i started dosing my clam died. Since then no problems with livestock. I started dosing to try and get rid of red turf algae that plagues some of my rocks. So far so good. Its stopped growing on a couple rocks and slowed overall nicely. I went really slow, starting at .4ml and bumping up .2ml every 2 weeks to 1.6ml, then i got some cyano and lowered it to 1ml and its been good since. Just my experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralreefer Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 So MB7 being this? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3975+19615&pcatid=19615 What is your alkalinity? was it high from calcium reactor, is it lower now, or did the dosing lower it naturally? So am I understanding that you are basically "creating" bacteria (food) for the corals whilst also creating bacteria that dissolves nitrates and phosphates? Also I am wondering if you pull out the Chaeto before dosing, or watch it and see if it dies in which case I would do a " who wants free chaeto " thread I know Patrick at FantaSeas carries MB7...yes, Brightwell's My alkalinity runs about 9-9.5...my tank doesn't care for 7 and I feel there is no downside protection if you have an alkalinity drop... The bacteria consumes nitrates/phosphates and is skimmed out...yes, as Byrd said, a good skimmer is a must with this method... You could pull out Chaeto when you start or leave it in to help assess progress.. DrMerle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerduck Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Make sure you have a great skimmer-all I can attribute the death of what I had die is the skimmer did not do its job. I am sure in those 30+ readings there had to be a few that stressed the importance of a good skimmer-Which according to all the reviews mine was. I did the twice a day method outlined in the thread coralreefer mentioned- Anyway-my goal was reducing NO3 lower than the 20-25 I was seeing with my 20% H2O changes every other week. I have accomplished that-current NO3 level- .01 Good luck-I'll never be an advocate for Vodka dosing, because.. IF it does not work like it is supposed to, and there are times (I sure you read) that it does not, well things dies. Hats off to all you vodka dosers- glad its working for ya!!! My Purigen accomplishes the same thing and I don't have to add it every single day-(laugh) I have actually gone 6 weeks without a water change feeding daily and my NO3 is still .01 The weird thing is I spent probably 5 hours straight reading and never found anyone that had a " bad" experience with Vodka dosing. I think I remember 1 guy who dumped a 1/2 a cup of sugar and killed some stuff but most of the problems I noticed was with the Zeo crowd. From my understanding, if you notice anything going south, cutting back a little on dosing always solves the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerduck Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 I added vodka and MB7 to my regular maintenance. I still do weekly 15% WCs, i still run carbon and phosban. I skim normally and I add 1ml vodka as well as 3-5 drops MB7 per day. The 7th day after i started dosing my clam died. Since then no problems with livestock. I started dosing to try and get rid of red turf algae that plagues some of my rocks. So far so good. Its stopped growing on a couple rocks and slowed overall nicely. I went really slow, starting at .4ml and bumping up .2ml every 2 weeks to 1.6ml, then i got some cyano and lowered it to 1ml and its been good since. Just my experience! this seems to be the norm, did you notice cleaner water and color changes or advanced growth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralreefer Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 the biggest "sudden" change I ever saw in my tank was when I started MB7...I had been dosing vodka for a couple months and started MB7 one night after lights out...the next morning I couldn't believe my eyes...cleanest clearest water I had ever seen I my life...it was like the fish were floating in air...I am at least as big a bacteria advocate as I am vodka... DrMerle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I had an overdose with sugar and had a bacterial bloom in my tank. It looked like a blizzard condition white-out. I could not see the rocks that were in the tank it was so bad. I moved the skimmer from in the sump to HOB mode and made sure it put lots of bubbles into the tank to help with the oxygen levels. I did have a cleaner shrimp die, and my two large fish (yellow tang and fox-face rabbitfish) not survive, but all the smaller fish pulled through. More recently, when I put too much sugar in it creates a lot of mucous-snot-slime that covers everything, and clogs up my filter sock. This has happened a few times after slacking off for a few days and not dosing, then a few days of dosing at the previous level. Or if I accidentally add a little more than normal amount of sugar. The skimmer is also used to help oxygenate the water so the increased bacterial load does not cause the oxygen level to drop and the animals suffocate. :( dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 this seems to be the norm' date=' did you notice cleaner water and color changes or advanced growth?[/quote'] SPS grow faster. I haven't noticed any better color though. Skimmate stayed about the same as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerduck Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 So what do you guys "feed" your corals? The Bacteria or do you use oyster mix or any other goodies? You do this so you can overfeed am I correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrd Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The weird thing is I spent probably 5 hours straight reading and never found anyone that had a " bad" experience with Vodka dosing. I think I remember 1 guy who dumped a 1/2 a cup of sugar and killed some stuff but most of the problems I noticed was with the Zeo crowd. From my understanding, if you notice anything going south, cutting back a little on dosing always solves the problems. Man if I was motivated I would find the threads that I had read that had the "bad" stories-but I dont have a dog n this fight-anymore. For sure about 1 out of 9 bad- good odds, thats why I gave it a shot-It was only fish and a clam that died, leather stayed shut for a week and so on. I was only out 300.00 on a positive note I got a fifth of Vodka if I get thirsty-(naughty) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerduck Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hmmm, yeah maybe I should have read more but I just read where people had successful looking reeftanks and were claiming victory and showing pictures. Maybe Ill google VsV gone bad and see if people OD'ed their tanks. I thought I remembered something about O2 or Co2 levels but Im just taking it slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralreefer Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 So what do you guys "feed" your corals? The Bacteria or do you use oyster mix or any other goodies? You do this so you can overfeed am I correct? I feed oyster feast, roti feast, phyto feast and mulm off Elos zeoliths... DrMerle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 So what do you guys "feed" your corals? The Bacteria or do you use oyster mix or any other goodies? You do this so you can overfeed am I correct? Light (drinking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I am going to try this with my next tank. I'm eager to see the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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