ReefSafari Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Curious what you all think is a good (safe) number of clownfish to put in a 40 breeder? over this last weekend I have been presented with the oppertunity to setup another 40 breeder, and was thinking of finally trying a dedicated Anemone/Clownfish tank, I remember seeing Mr.S. tank in his classroom WAY back during one of the meetings, and have wanted to do a 40 breeder like it, and then at the most recent meeting seeing Beth/Kim's beautiful tank spurred my interest again, and then all of a sudden I am being present with pretty much a 40breeder setup and might just go that route... This would be primarily a dedicated RBTA with clowns as the only fish in the tank...so curious how many clownfish do you think would be good for a 40 breeder? At first I was thinking of doing like one of each kind, mixing Percs and Ocell's, Like a Naked, Platinum, Picasso, Normal, Black, Midnight something like that depending on how many I can put in there, but on the flip side, I was thinking maybe just sticking with maybe all normal Percs, or all normal percs and a platinum to mix it up...Just trying to get some ideas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnkrcklives Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If there are plenty of safe places to host, and they are all introduced at the same time. I dont see why you could not get away with 6 or more. I am no expert and have never tried it but think it could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePremiumAquarium Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 ^^^ All depends on how you intend to set it up and what really is going to make you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefSafari Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 ^^^ All depends on how you intend to set it up and what really is going to make you happy. 40 Breeder with 20L sump, Protien Skimmer, Refugium, lighting will be a dual 150w Metal Halide with 4 T5 bulbs, The clowns would be the only fish in the tank, and I would keep other corals to a minimum....I basically would like to see a 40breeder have multiple RBTA hosting clowns...If I put say 3-4 RBTA in there and say 6 clownfish, that to me doesn't seem too overboard, would give the clowns options, and it would be cool if they all paired up and went into thier own anemone... I am basically getting hooked up with this 40 breeder setup, and wanted to try something different, something that is not like the 40 breeder I have now that is overflowing with corals...soemthing different.. You think it would be better to do just 1 RBTA and a pair of clownfish? My expereince with BTA is very limited, I had a green one and didn't do wo well with it, so I am not sure about doing a fully dedicated system to them...Just wanted to try something different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsz3 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 i have 4 clowns in a 75g, a pair of b/w and pair picasso's they are fine together now, i introduced them at the same time on opposite sides one next to a sebae and the other next to rbta but all went to sebae b/w kicked the pics out (even after seperating them in the sump with the rbta for 2 weeks they went straight back to the sebae) and now they have showed there dominince and have no problems with them they all get along great. I have had some true and false percs and darwin b/w's and none would host anything but the overflow box at night, the one's i have now from barelycuda went straight for the anem. I would think imo that as long as they are aclimited and introduced together you could put 6-8 in there as long as there are enough "hosting" areas for them, your lighting will be fine for the nem s but i would do different a couple sebae and couple bta's and some toadstool leather since many of the clowns seem to host these as well, i think that pairs may do better in a smaller system than one of each but I am no expert just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicarious Cynic Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've got a 40 breeder. I have not done clowns or nems. I think you could do 4-6 fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Woo hoo I'm glad to have helped inspire you David! You can't have too many clown/anemone tanks. I would think 6 would be fine. Beth and I have 13 (couting the pair of platinums we put in our sump lol) in our 150 gallon tank. We are also considering adding skunk clowns later. We did this in the past and they did okay. So far everyone is playing nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead77 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ask this question on Reef Central. Go ahead. I dare ya! Personally, I'd be leery of more than 4 in a tank that size. Even that might be pushing it. I certainly wouldn't try Maroons and Clarkiis. The problem is that some can get very territorial and you just never know. You could start out fine and then in a year or so have problems. Again, you just don't know how they'll behave once they mature. There is no way I would do 6 in a tank that size. I started with a pair of Pinks and a pair of Percs in my 72 Bow 3-1/2 years ago and they did fine. Now they are in my 180 on opposite ends, both pair laying eggs about every other week, and they never cross an imaginary line about midway of the tank into the others territory. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeasy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm going to have to disagree with most the posters here. While naturally, A. perideraion, A. ocellaris, and A. Percula do live in social groups, with a dominant male and female; and a school of non dominant fish, to accomplish it in an aquarium is quite a feat, and nearly impossible for long term success in a 40g tank. Your best bet is pink skunks, as they're the least aggresive and seem to do the best in group captivity, but just know that the majority of people that have attempted this end up with a pair, or one loan dominate fish and the rest culled by her or the pair. fwiw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barelycuda Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have 5 clowns in my 75g. A pair of ocellaris, a pair of nigripes and a single pink skunk. They have been together for over three years now. It can be done but there is never any guarantee it will work out in the long run. IMO having different types of clowns may help them to get along in a tank of that size. It would also probably be helpful to introduce them all as juveniles and at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think with plenty of live rock and a good skimmer you should be able to do 8 of them, it's more about your husbandry than how many fish, you can have an overstocked tank if you keep up on testing and waterchanges, maybe even do a biopelet reactor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 By the way I could not vote in the poll due to the bugs in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeasy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think with plenty of live rock and a good skimmer you should be able to do 8 of them' date=' it's more about your husbandry than how many fish, you can have an overstocked tank if you keep up on testing and waterchanges, maybe even do a biopelet reactor.[/quote'] Gotta disagree again. Regardless of the live rock or skimmer, clownfish aren't going to put up with more than one pair in a 40g aquarium. They are naturally aggresive towards other clownfish. I don't want to argue with anyone, but multiple species of clownfish in the same tank under 100g is a disaster waiting to happen. Some people get lucky, but the majority do not. http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245520 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead77 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think with plenty of live rock and a good skimmer you should be able to do 8 of them' date=' it's more about your husbandry than how many fish, you can have an overstocked tank if you keep up on testing and waterchanges, maybe even do a biopelet reactor.[/quote'] Seriously? 8 Clownfish in a 40 gal breeder? I thought we were supposed to be all about responsible reef keeping. Unless you divide the tank into 4 sections with plexiglass, 8 clownfish in a 40 gallon is a disaster waiting to happen. These fish aren't like Anthias or Chromisis. Once they mature, they don't school around together. Once they establish their territory, they are very territorial and will defend it to the death. Husbandry has absolutely nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 WAW, I realize all this, and the article, while being very well written, one was written almost 10 years ago, and two is an opinion/observation of one person. By this article there shouldn't be any more than 2 per tank period, so why hasn't anyone else on here been put on the chopping block for having more than one pair of them? I personally have seen a 150 gallon tank with over 60 clowns in it for about 2 years, all got along just fine ( it was so cool to see the feeding and see the ball of clowns!!!) when he took the tank down I got the tank and 15 of the clowns and they were fine for about another year before I slowly gave them to friends and then the rest went to the store when I opened. Yes this is just my experience and yes it could turned out the other way, but I like to go by my experiences with things, like the Kline's butterfly no way would I say to get one for aiptasia as even though they say they are reef safe, my experience is they are not. With my experiences in the Hobie I could prob write a book contradicting most of what other books and "experts" say. I'm not saying I'm right or there wrong, just pointing out that there is nothing in this Hobie that is a defiant!!! and untill you try you won't know for sure!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoobtoSalt Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have 5 clowns in my 75g. A pair of ocellaris' date=' a pair of nigripes and a single pink skunk. They have been together for over three years now. It can be done but there is never any guarantee it will work out in the long run. IMO having different types of clowns may help them to get along in a tank of that size. It would also probably be helpful to introduce them all as juveniles and at the same time.[/quote'] If your going to try it I would lean towards Dave's expertise here David. Gotta disagree again. Regardless of the live rock or skimmer, clownfish aren't going to put up with more than one pair in a 40g aquarium. They are naturally aggresive towards other clownfish. I don't want to argue with anyone, but multiple species of clownfish in the same tank under 100g is a disaster waiting to happen. Some people get lucky, but the majority do not. http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245520 Welcome to the forum. BTW Dave "Barelycuda" is a breeder of clownfish. I would guess he knows a little about them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPaquatics Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I've got a 40 breeder. I have not done clowns or nems. I think you could do 4-6 fish. is that seriously advice? You are basing your advice, admitting you haven't owned clownfish, because you have a 40 breeder? I dont usually call people out but come on... I have to agree with the disagreers. You can add as many as you want, but eventually you will have one dominant pair, you can them remove the others or they will for you. That is too small an area to think otherwise. People can see they have SEEN whatever. 60+ clowns in a 150...WHY? might have had it 2 years but I GUARANTEE they were picking bodies out occasionally. clowns you buy normally arent mature. I make a living setting up large, high end, show tank for a living. I would never consider putting more than one pair or trio of a species in anything less than 150...and even with that big of tank or bigger, you better have territories that they inhabit separately that dont overlap. I also disagree with the comment "you wont know til you try it." These are live animals, not for novice experimentation. Many experienced people will steer you away from it...sure most things CAN possibly be done...but why is it that every novice thinks it is them that is the lucky one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefSafari Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thanks everyone for thier imput and replies, While this is a great topic to discuss and as with ANYTHING in this hobby there is many opinions and personal preferences, lets try and keep this Civil and realize everyone is not going to agree and everyone has thier own opinions...you know what they say....opinions are like...you know...I don't want to have to close my own thread, but I will...I am greatful for everyones advice and opinions, and for that I thank you...Lets all play nice and respect each others opinions even if we don't agree with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeasy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 If your going to try it I would lean towards Dave's expertise here David. Welcome to the forum. BTW Dave "Barelycuda" is a breeder of clownfish. I would guess he knows a little about them... I bred clownfish, and kept anemone's and clownfish for the past 10 years. He breeds them and is one of the only members on this site that was around when I was, and because of luck, and the species of clowns in his aquarium, also that it's a 75g; he succeeded. I may have had to register a new username as I was out of the area for a couple years, but that doesn't make my opinion any less valid. is that seriously advice? You are basing your advice, admitting you haven't owned clownfish, because you have a 40 breeder? I dont usually call people out but come on... I have to agree with the disagreers. You can add as many as you want, but eventually you will have one dominant pair, you can them remove the others or they will for you. That is too small an area to think otherwise. People can see they have SEEN whatever. 60+ clowns in a 150...WHY? might have had it 2 years but I GUARANTEE they were picking bodies out occasionally. clowns you buy normally arent mature. I make a living setting up large, high end, show tank for a living. I would never consider putting more than one pair or trio of a species in anything less than 150...and even with that big of tank or bigger, you better have territories that they inhabit separately that dont overlap. I also disagree with the comment "you wont know til you try it." These are live animals, not for novice experimentation. Many experienced people will steer you away from it...sure most things CAN possibly be done...but why is it that every novice thinks it is them that is the lucky one... I agree completely. For those who were around awhile ago, my old username I cannot log onto is "illcssd". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoobtoSalt Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I bred clownfish, and kept anemone's and clownfish for the past 10 years. He may breed them now, and I may have had to register a new username as I was out of the area for a couple years, but that doesn't make my opinion any less valid. I agree completely. Your comments didn't say that. Thanks for sharing! Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barelycuda Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 First of all I do not necessarily consider myself "lucky" because I have 5 clowns in a 75 gallon tank. Do I recommend it to everyone, No.... I also think that it is admirable that someone likes clownfish enough to want multiple clowns in a tank and has proposed the question to his group of hobbyists for advice rather than just going out and buying a bunch to take the chance that they may or may not get along. While we all have opinions on the subject, one thing that I have always tried to do in this hobby is respect the opinions of others whether or not I agree with them. I do not necessarily consider myself an expert on the subject as there are people that know more than myself but I have bred 12 different species of saltwater fish and reared what I think is close to 10,000 babies to date. I have my own theories, some of which I can validate with experience and others are just that theories based on knowledge but i do not like it when people try to tell me something cannot be done as a lot of times it can be done if someone is willing to try and be responsible enough to know when to stop if it is not. For instance it has been said that gold stripe maroons should not be kept in or spawn in anything smaller than a 40g tank yet mine spawned in a 10g tank. While I know that someone has made a comment about filtration in regards to this I personally do not think that it is a matter of husbandry that limits this particular situation. There are several factors to consider when trying to put multiple clowns in a tank. First of all is the size of the tank. Now a 40 breeder is not much room for any qty of fish let alone clownfish. Secondly I believe that for there to be ANY chance of this to be pulled off (which there is always a chance that it will not work) I believe that all fish should be put into this tank at the same time and all should be sexually undeveloped juveniles. By doing it this way you have a chance that you will have 1 pair establish and the others would remain sexually undeveloped but you have to take this chance responsibly and go in knowingly that it may not work and you may have to remove some of them or they may be killed. Knowing which species are more prone to being aggressive should also have some influence on which ones to purchase. Now almost everybody has an opinion as to which is the most aggressive the simple fact is that under normal circumstances every species of clowns has the potential to not get along with others. You should also try to have separate distinct areas of separation for the clowns which will be difficult to do in a tank that size. IF you are to try to take this on you have to understand that it may not work and you may only be able to keep 1 pair. FWIW my opinion was 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very well said Dave. There are some excellent points made about the small space of the 40breeder in this thread as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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