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Smann

HELP this looks Bad!

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I've lost a few small acros lately that I thought have gotten stung by an anemone or another coral. Now I see two that are all by themselves and are dying from the base up, once it starts it goes quick

acrodying.jpg

 

So far its only small pieces, some I've had for 6 months or more you can see the base was grown onto the rock so its not a new frag

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best bet once it sets in is to snap it off above the white...

 

have you done any testing to see what it could be caused from?

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I did on one colony that was bigger with several branches, cut and remounted the good branches and it was gone the next day

I'm not sure what to test for, all my tank parameters are right on

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I don't know enough about why it really happens and what to check for, I wish I could help you more... I only had it happen to one piece and it was fairly new.

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good rule of thumb: any time you plan to post that your parameters are good, go test them and type them up for others to look at :)

 

my guess would be an alk or ph swing that has corrected its self back by the time you did your tests though

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+1 for phosphate.

 

Check the water that you use for top-off. Maybe your RO unit needs new parts. If the carbon block pre-filters go bad then chlorine gets to the membrane and ruins it.

 

Maybe the DI resin needs replacing.

 

It looks just like some of my acros looked when I had high phosphates. They all turned white from the base up.

 

Take a water sample (tank and from your RO) to Waves and have him test for phosphates. If you have some, put in some GFO or other phosphate remover. I once used these drops that take care of phosphate. I did not think they would work, but they did drop the phosphate very quickly.

 

dsoz

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Thanks Guys

I test and log weekly along with the data from my controller and cant see any changes. i have a Salifert and Tunze phosphate test kits and both are 0. I change my ro/di canisters at the reccomended time and always have a set on hand.

Unfortunatly after much reading I'm leaning towards this, I hope I'm wrong

White band disease

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mccarty_and_peters/coral/wbdpage.htm

 

http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/showthread.php?p=62660

 

I had another one

I'll post a pic later of my large milli one of it attach point has turned white and about 1/2" up a perfect white line. The pieces that went fast I think were stung, the acros are going very slowly

 

gotta go for now...darn work!!

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Not the large milli! Say it aint so!

 

I still have several frags of it that you gave me. They are more brown under my lights, but they have fairly good PE. You are more than welcome to have them all back once you find the cause of this problem.

 

dsoz

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i just feel like it is going through RTN due to some parameter being out of whack. did you ever test (or retest) the regulars? ca alk mg ammonia nitrates salinity temp. you say they are right, but when was the last time you tested? just double check them and post them up so that we can get that out of the way.

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i just feel like it is going through RTN due to some parameter being out of whack. did you ever test (or retest) the regulars? ca alk mg ammonia nitrates salinity temp. you say they are right' date=' but when was the last time you tested? just double check them and post them up so that we can get that out of the way.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I've tested everything and I will post them, today I did lots of reading on RTN and White band disease the latter being a distinct line of recession from the base up

Heres the pics i took today

 

The base (or one of many) my large Millipora

acro1.jpg

 

and two others

 

acro2.jpg

 

acro3.jpg

 

The smaller ones I've taken out

 

RTN I understand can occur anywhere from the tips to the middle to the base this is only from the base up and all have in a clean line

 

Nothing On the tops or anywhere else so far

we'll see what happens

acro5.jpg

 

All other sps and other corals are fine just my Acropora's

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Are you sure you sure you don't have a pest? I've seen red bugs cause something similar, but it's slower - not an overnight problem. The polyp extension is first, then the coral starts losing tissue from the base up. But it's a slow process.

 

You could make the aguement that Acros are just more sensitive, so they are just the first to react to a phosphate issue - or reacting at a lower sensitivity.

 

But any time someone says, "just my acros" or "just my montis" it makes me wonder if there is a pest.

 

I had something similar happen when I got lazy about water changes for a period of time and my Nitrates got elevated - had some base tissue loss.

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I did a lot of research on this problem a few months ago, but unfortunately didn't find a lot of solid information. At that time, the best guesses I could find were that tissue recession was the result of some kind of bacterial infection -- possibly Vibrio or Sphingomonas (check out this abstract).

 

There are articles out there (http://www.springerlink.com/content/67h6k6w373t15124/ for example) that suggest that the problem may be caused by a decline in the population of virii that keep the bacteria in check. When the virus population declines, the bacteria are able to multiply unchecked and cause bleaching and/or tissue recession. I haven't seen anything definitive about what could cause the initial drop in virus population... but I'll bet that any number of environmental changes could lead to the problem (changes that are a lot more likely in our tanks than in the ocean).

 

The only substantive information I've found is in academic papers (scholar.google.com is a great resource, though most of the links provided are to articles in professional pay-to-view journals) -- unfortunately, not a lot of discussion of treatment in them (sad) There's a fair bit of discussion on treatments at the usual spots (RC, TRT, reefs.org), but it's pretty much all anecdotal.

 

If I were to have the problem now, I'd treat each affected coral as if it had a bacterial infection -- frag off the good bits and give the frags a dip in a strong anti-bacterial (lugols, TMPCC, or something stronger -- maybe talk to a vet for suggestions?)... then quarantine the frags until they recover and the problem has played out in the main tank. Some articles mention that the infection can also cause bleaching; given that, I'd also consider reducing the level of light in the quarantine tank.

 

I'll do a couple of searches at work tomorrow -- we have access to a big online research library, maybe I'll find something more recent/detailed there.

 

Good luck, this sucks...

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Kip Peeler had this kinda problem a couple of years ago. He came to the conclusion it was a pathogen. Sorry to say he never did find a cure and ended up acro-less for over a year.

 

You can go to his website www.kipsreef.com and read about it and compare.

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Looks like that site has been taken over by some commercial thingamajig...

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Kip Peeler had this kinda problem a couple of years ago. He came to the conclusion it was a pathogen. Sorry to say he never did find a cure and ended up acro-less for over a year.

 

You can go to his website www.kipsreef.com and read about it and compare.

 

Thanks,

I've found quite a few articles on this here is a ToM that has gotten used to it, scroll down towards the last paragraph before the pics

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/aquarium.htm

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Steve, you going to be around later? Give me a call. I will be down your way a little after three.

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So far its very slow on my large milli, i have removed the smaller ones and tried a treatment on some medium colonies that can be removed. I did find some good info on tanks(and in the wild) that have had a similar experience, unfortumaly the solution was to let it run its course and restart. most had the same experience, small went fast, medium half/half, large colonies very slow and some sucess when removed to a different tank to wait it out.

If anone is interested I've saved alot of articles or if you want to stop by and see it

Let me know

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Smann: You have some nice stuff. I really love that huge colony in the last picture.

 

Killer

 

 

 

Yeah, I've tested everything and I will post them, today I did lots of reading on RTN and White band disease the latter being a distinct line of recession from the base up

Heres the pics i took today

 

The base (or one of many) my large Millipora

acro1.jpg

 

and two others

 

acro2.jpg

 

acro3.jpg

 

The smaller ones I've taken out

 

RTN I understand can occur anywhere from the tips to the middle to the base this is only from the base up and all have in a clean line

 

Nothing On the tops or anywhere else so far

we'll see what happens

acro5.jpg

 

All other sps and other corals are fine just my Acropora's

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Hows this going steve? Growth rate of the dead spots about the same? You still going to do that 40 ? Let me know if you are.

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