ahreno

I went on a trip to california and my house almost burnt down. Read about it here. They cut the power to my house and luckily my roommates and friends (thanks miles) grabbed most of my livestock... A lot made it ... some didn't. In any case I think this is my que to ditch my 300 gallon reef. This would be the second time since i bought my house that I would have to rebuild and I dont have the time or money to do it again... rebuilding my living room wall is more important. Right now I have what I can only estimate to be 300+ lbs of live rock. Since someone grabbed all my corral and some was attached to liverock I don't know how much i really have we figured there was $1200-1500 worth of rock originally. This needs to go first... then it's on to powerheads and lights and pumps and sump and all that good stuff. So let's go with $3 a lb for live rock... if you buy more than 50 lbs I'll drop it down to $2.75.

i fly back into portland on the 23rd or 24th actually. If i have a vehicle when i get there i'd swing by for some... you got anything else you're fragging too?

I'd like some... any chance of you getting down to eugene?

if you get to a point you'd like to sell it I may be interested

How am i worried about it? By starting a thread asking peoples opinions? Isn't that kind of what this board is about? Did you even read the whole thread to see my posts or are you just jumping in to help a friend? And whats your point with the bubble tip quote? what did i do wrong there? I did find a RBTA for $30... If you're going to quote to try to make me look like an idiot... you could have included the post right before i asked if he was serious about $25 RBTA (the store was closing I had no idea if he was trying to liquidate) which said: "Come on back through and you can have the rose bubbles for $25"

You nailed it with: I love arguing and often find myself playing devils advocate just for that sake. I have no problem with people having different opions than mine which you'll notice in many of my posts commenting on others good points. I've read back through this entire thread a few times and if there were a few posts that were either phrased in a constructive non attacking manner this could have been 10 threads of intelligent conversation as opposed to what it ended up being. I feel i've tarnished my name here even though if you read through my posts i remained very calm and coolheaded through the whole thing (besides my response to Randy-S claiming to know my intentions) when it could have been easy to respond in a heated tone to a few of the people that were regular participants in this. And the reason I have been logged on all day is that I own a social media marketing company and one of the things we use as a marketing tool is forums... so for me to be a part of an almost 100 post thread in a day is something that interests me on more levels than just the surface topic. I'll probably end up using this thread in a blog post or case study of some sort.

How am i being selfish or whining? Like i said there is no realistic way for me to have gotten these corals from him. My first post doesn't even mention this specific circumstance. You did personally attack me... if you really cant remember flying off the handle earlier (which you even apologized for) I would go through and copy/quote the things you've said. I don't care enough to. All i wanted was to hear what others thought... there were plenty of people that agreed this was a topic that warranted being discussed and it could have been a decent conversation if it had stayed civil.

Really man? You sure about that? You're an expert on my thinking and reasoning? What right do you have to make that statement about me ? I dont even know how much he wanted for the piece i was interested in. He could have wanted $5000 for it for all I know. Not to mention - I leave for the midwest for two weeks tomorrow so there's no real possible way for me to have gotten up to portland and back down here with the coral. Which pretty much means there's no way i could have gotten this deal even if it was available to me. So no offense but you're omniscient statement about my intentions is pretty much 100% wrong.

You do know he claims these are for his show tank and not to resell... so in effect he's taking these out of the local market as opposed to making more available. Also what makes you think he's would sell them any cheaper than he got them right from Tyree?

I dont know if i would have bought his stuff. The stuff i wanted didn't have a price. If i'm the only one that feels this way is fine. Thats why i posted my original post. It wasn't only in response to what happened today... I've seen it happen other times as well. It always has irked me. Other people have commented that it is something that should be discussed. The majority of people commenting here has been people from stores so of course they're going to be on one side. Even if I am the only person in the world that sees some issues with this it doesn't give anyone the right to personally attack or insult me. This is a discussion board and thats what i wanted to have a discussion about this. I made various suggestions that I personally would like to see implemented to be discussed. My suggestion about giving paid members a perk in terms of buying is a good suggestion and way to help the club grow. To me it doesn't matter if he was selling common stuff or LE stuff... I see a larger picture here where it becomes a common thing for stores coming here and buying up the majority of things to resell to the public. If other users of the site or the board members don't see an issue with that... then thats fine. I have no problem with it happening. If it bothers me enough i'm free to go to a different site. It doesn't really bother me that much though I was just looking to discuss it to see if anyone else felt the same way. I'd be surprised if any people would come in and express their opinions out of fear of a couple things. 1. damaging their relationship with the stores they rely on. and/or 2. the way i was personally attacked and criticized for voicing my opinion on it.

why do you guys insist on putting negative terms on me wanting to discuss this? Just because i expressed a view contrary to yours doesn't make it complaining or whining or *****ing.

Joel... I like you man, i buy stuff from you everytime i'm in portland even though the first thing i bought from you died two days later (tunicate). I have nothing ill to say about you or your store so don't take offense to what i said, i was referring to my local stores here. $25 for a small frag of pulsing xenia is gouging in my book. It's obvious what side of the argument store owners are going to be on. And you're right it's not a dictatorship which is why i posted this thread... to see what other people thought. I've said numerous times throughout this thread that i completely understand both sides of the argument. I should have every right to post a topic like this without being personally criticized by people (not saying you did it but plenty of others have). I'm not demanding change or threatening or making anything personal towards anyone. I simply stated an opinion and asked for conversation around it. Frank made no mention of minimums or having to buy commoon coral to get the LE stuff. Your point about Kent is completely off base. How about this example. You and the other LFS all have your sources for corals. How would you feel if Petco came in and bought EVERYTHING from them, marked it up 100% and then turned around and expected you to not care about it or even express your opinion? Or what if Tyree bought up everything that came in off the docks slapped his name on it and LE after it and made you buy from him? Thats a more realistic point.

I guess that would depend on what you would all want. If it's not something you're looking for perhaps it doesn't pay to go down this road? I'm not exactly looking to sell so i'd have to get a good price and since its not really what you want you'd want to find a killer deal!

You're right as well. the "sponsor" title shouldn't have been in my original post... my reference is to people from stores that buy with the sole purpose of marking the piece of and selling in their store. Being a site sponsor has nothing to do with it and i incorrectly used that term instead of soemthing like "store"

Great point until this last point. Whats the difference if they take it back to their store to sell it to us or sell it back to us from here? At least from here we don't have to go into a store and be pressured into buying something else. If there is no concern of people capitalizing on the classified threads it should make no difference where that capitalization takes place. It's ok to make money off the classifieds as long as it's not done in our presence?

[language filter]. Mrgreenthumb, I apologize, i got you mixed up with Sully. I apologize. Kinda blew that one badly. My bad. I'm done here. this has gotten so far off my original topic it's not even funny. I REALLY just wanted to discuss comercial entities buying from our classifieds to make a profit. \ So if anyone is reading still and interested in the original topic... What about the thought of giving PAID PNWMAS members a set amount of time (1 day, 3 days) to purchase before it opens up to the general public (commercially interested parties as well). Please note that I am NOT a paid member of the site and would fall into the latter group (but it would convince me to join the group).

not really... i tried looking through the red water but didn't see anything... my eyes aren't super awesome though! I sit on the computer for too many hours. there was a bunch of white stuff in the bottom but its just as likely that it was sand that came off

Vanz... good point about blocking sponsors. I thought about that as well which is why i phrased it Commercially interested parties" which was easy to overlook in this cluster mess of a thread. Of course it would be possible to game the system (fake usernames, having someone else buy for them) and if someone really wants to go through that much trouble to get around the rules then who cares, let them do it. There will always be shady things like that that happen. The only realistic solution i could come up for that wouldn't completely disallow commercial places from using the buy/sell forum is to put a time limit on it that paid members of the group or just site members have first dibs on things for. then let the rest go to the stores who are welcome to mark it up as much as they want since it passed through the members of the site first. This would actually be an incentive to be a paid member of the group (which I am NOT but would pay just for that purpose) as they would get first dibs on buy/sell items.

very interesting post. I just reread the thread and I'd have to say that I don't think there is much wrong with it. Some over reaction but the original topic is a pretty valid discussion to have. I agree that it has gotten personal and petty but to remove the conversation is not fair. There are some good points made by many people. What part of this discussion or topic is so bad that it brings you to threaten to not sponsor the group? All of the angered responses have come from a sponsor, not from actual group. I guess I really fail to see how this topic is something that shouldn't or can't be discussed openly and professionally

Greenthumb. Settle down man. Jesus. I was and still am referring to this as commercially driven people. I don't direct it to you anymore than i direct it towards any one else that buys corals here to sell in a store. I've said a few times i understand each side of the debate. What I don't understand is why you are getting so bent out of whack about this. It's just a discussion board. I have never seen this topic breached on here before so I thought i'd bring it up. If it's been discussed before I apologize. I'm sorry if i somehow happened to personally insult you as that has never been the case. I never said you called me stupid. I said "Mr. Green Thumb. I apologize that you find my feelings "stupid"." which was in response to you saing my comment of "my end feeling after thinking about it for a while is that it just comes down to ethics" was the stupidest thing you ever read. Thats not out of context. The only reason this thread is unprofessional is the way you are handling yourself. As a side note, I do appreciate that fact that you buy products from customers as it avoids you having to buy from people that destroy reefs to supply your store. I just was curious what other peoples feelings are on capitalizing off the classified section here. if the majority of people don't care then thats fine let it be... if the majority DO care then something should be done to address this. Please refrain from the personal attacks towards me as they aren't beneficial to the conversation. you just said "You guys need to be a little careful on getting pissed off." That made me laugh...

then don't participate. I'll pm you...

like i said before.... I'm trying to find some local frags of rare/LE items without paying outrageously high LFS or shipping fees... I can definately see each side of the argument and don't really see why i got personally attacked... i was just trying to start a conversation around it. I do think non commercial people should have first dibs on things but thats just my opinion.

garrett - great post except for the PS part... that definately could have been left off as it seems like you're trying to rub the issue in the face of people on the other side of the argument... Do you have any sunset montis or other rare monti frags?

Mr. Green Thumb. I apologize that you find my feelings "stupid". I will work to conform to your views better. I find it interesting that you're smart enough to be able to use a dictionary to define "ethics" but you're unable to use one to know the difference between "sight" and "site". Lucky for you I don't need to resort to calling people "stupid" on the internet. Ethics can also be defined as "motivation based on ideas of right and wrong" - i was simply saying that in my opinion it is wrong for a commercially interested party to come to this small association of people and want to capitalize off it in this manner. I really hope you don't treat your customers in such a manner... calling their opinions stupid is petty and immature. It's sad you had to take such a defensive stance on this as opposed to being professional and talking it out. In actuality it's the SITE that has the final say in whether its ok for sponsors to monetize off their classified thread. They may choose to let that choice be handled by the sellers but when it comes down to it - it's the owner of the site and/or the board members of the club.

I guess my end feeling after thinking about it for a while is that it just comes down to ethics. If i had a customer base that had their own little thing going, but i was still able to maintain my shop, i wouldn't feel right about swooping in and interacting in it. Here is the solution i would like to suggest. Commercially interested parties are allowed to participate in the classified sections but only on posts that are longer than 7 (or 3 or 5) days old. Board members always have the option of calling the LFS stores to sell their items if they need them sold overnight. By having a time limit before commercially interested parties are available to pounce it allows "real" users of the site time to find good deals or have first choice on rare / hard to find items. It also doesn't alienate the sponsors from being able to get good prices while at the same time helping out a "real" person by buying their stuff in bulk. Like i mention, the seller always has the right to pick up the phone and call a LFS and say, Hey i got all this stuff to sell, I need it gone ASAP... Will you buy it? And if there is a sponsor with a personal tank that he wants to buy things for, that should be perfectly allowed but under a personal login. just my suggestion... figure i started this mess, i should at least have a solution that takes both sides arguments into consideration. Edit: i really don't see an issue with a commercial person being part of the board. When an issue like this comes up that deals with sponsors in general they should just not be allowed to vote on it... or whatever you guys do