giant squid

speaking of bombs, anyone for Jericho??? This show had me hanging on closer to the edge of my seat then Heroes end of last season.

do you mean the "aragomilk" liquid that comes in a bottle usually next to "purple up" at your LFS?

or is there a product like a sand that sits on the bottom and slow dissolves?

cool man, i really appreciate the information. It helps understand these buggers a little more in detail which is exactly what i'm trying to learn about.

Thanks again,

-J.>>(

oh by the way, did i read somewhere that some flatworms change color when they are on coral?

I must have learned about "silly arguments" managing the zebrafish research nursery at the U of O cuz the scientific academia politics were purely insidious. And small arguments (if that's what they were) were synonymous with small advancements in research, in fact some researchers only understood you when you were at your wit's end. Strange, huh? Maybe these methods were unorthodox, but they certainly were commonplace.

I couldn't agree with you more ryan, quarantine protocols, husbandry skills, and communication between aquarists are essential to advance sustainable mariculture practices, and i certainly don't write to these forums in hopes of living vicariously through an alternative ornamental fish sewing cirlce, i am simply a hobbyist looking for some straight answers.

Thanks for the motivation.

-J.>>(

now i'm looking at the coral and all the polyps are out, and not a weird thing to be found on it.

what the..?

Why should I take the risk on a coral that has a good probability of having parasites when I can get one that in my experience has much less of a chance of having it. I would love to be able to take in tank raised corals but until the attitude towards the control of parasites changes I choose not to take that chance. Obviously there is always a risk but this is all about playing the odds and taking every precaution I can. I make my living doing this and am not willing to risk that on taking in one coral.

 

I have read the stuff online about how they are harmless but I can tell you that I know of more than half a dozen people that have had problems with sps death due to these parasites. Maybe corals isn't there prefered food or maybe there are species that are very similar in appearance but look at one of your pictures again. You state that they are not on your corals unless there is dead tissue but look at the circled areas in your photo. There are flatworms on the coral and the polyps are closed.

 

My question is why wouldn't you take every opportunity to keep a questionable species under control. With as fast as those things reproduce they cannot possibly be good. We all know the golden rule of reef tanks that nothing good ever happens fast in a reef tank. I am just advocating better quarantine procedures by everyone and a greater awareness of the problems that are wide spread with tank raised corals at this time. If you don't think they are widespread go to some of the major boards and look around. I keep an eye on several club boards around the country and parasites are becoming a major problem.

Well, i can certainly respect your point of view, i wish you all the best .

As far as my coral goes, that piece has been in there for about 4 months now, and i have never noticed anything weird about it till you pointed it out. The polyps aren't always like that, and when i went to double check it after your post, i didn't see anything.

But then i woke up the next morning and sure enough there was something there. They look different then the brown guys though, do they in fact change color when on a coral? Or are these an other type of flatworm?

They still aren't feeding on the tissue i would guess cuz by now i would imagine there would be tissue necrosis and i don't see that, only poyps retracted and not all the time. Hmmm...

What do you think?

First I didn't say that you couldn't get coral parasites from wild corals but the risk is much less than captive raised corals because good quarantine practices are not followed. I am not saying that I am perfect in this but we do preventative treatments in our reef tanks and freshwater dips on new corals. To wait until there is a problem is too long.

 

As a hobby we need to take this problem much more seriously. All you have to do is to read forums from around the country. This is a very serious problem and obviously by the attitude that I have seen here it will continue to be a problem. It is good not to take for granted that anything is parasite free no matter what the source but the person that is growing the corals needs to take responsibility for taking every precaution to make sure that what they are trading or selling is clean and free of parasites. If we as a hobby cannot do a better job of this captive raised corals will never be able to a realistic alternative to wild caught.

 

As far as Liquid Sunshine having flatworms I was not directly refering to them but every store in town that has had a problem with these. The biggest problem with parasites was at Symbiosis but luckily they went out of business.

 

I am glad we are able to have this discussion and hopefully it will lead to better quarantine procedures for everything that you put in your aquarium. There are people on this board that support my point of view on these flatworms as they have had sps death due to this plague but choose not to post.

If you are so big on quarantine procedures, why would it matter where they came from, be it wild collected or from a customer? Maybe i'm confused.

You know, as you say, parasites are the number one reason that the trade of tank raised coral will not advance, but if you never take in coral from people, that could propably have an impact too.

Thanks for the great conversation sean, and everyone, i wish you all the best as always...

Yes I have had a run in with these buggers well in the past before I knew what they were. They are one of the reasons we do not take in corals from local people. I have had customers of mine that have picked these nice little critters that they have picked up from other stores in town that shall remain nameless. Then they started having problems with mysterious sps colony death. Colonies just bleaching overnight and once they treated with flatworm exit and killed the little buggers the problem stopped. Maybe you haven't had any problems as of yet but it will happen I can only hope that you don't decide to trade anything in that tank with any one else and spread that plague. Ohh and by the way Turbinaria is an LPS coral.

So liquid sunshine had flatworms for awhile, and i might have gotten the worms from there, but i'm also familiar with the risks associated with buying living animals and the hitchhikers that may possibly tag along for the ride. Even if someone guaranteed the animal to be safe and clean when purchased, the risk still exists NO MATTER WHAT. That's the risk a consumer takes.

I'm sorry i'm not as knowledgeable as you on the subject matter, but that's why i write to others here to get their opinions on what i can do about the situation, not to be told my corals are doomed and i'm wrong about an id on a coral. (flame)

I love the option of being able to trade or buy/sell or get credit for corals that i raise at home. I believe that is great motivation for more people to grow coral at home, and makes the hobby more fun and educational. What better way to delve into a specific troubleshooting issue than for one to exist and to try to remedy it? Better to not exist at all, of course but all of us have had some problem at some point.

I think the situation sounds extreme, but you say the sps coral had bleached overnight due to brown flatworms, and i say i'll get back to you in another 18 months and let you know if my coral are dead yet.

I notice that you would do not have any sps corals pictured. Those flatworms dont generally bother anything but sps. Drop an Sps frag in there and see how long it lasts. My guess would be not long.

Well the acro slimer, acro milli, acro nasuto, pocillopora, Turbinaria, and three colour morphs of digitata that are in the tank would beg to differ, but they are in a higher area of the tank where the flow is greater, and not as many flatworms hang out there, but they are still there.

It sounds like you had a run in with these little buggers, i feel your pain man, but maybe you had the predatory flatworms.? Dunno. (scratch)

I just put in a velvet sea slug to possibly help bring the population down a little. So six line wrasses are supposed to nibble on them too?

here is one of our tanks that has been running for 18 months with brown acoel flatworms. The coral thus far have never seemingly been affected in any way. Normal growth, and asexual reproduction in some of the coral has not been impeded. maybe a bit lucky, but the only time i have ever seen them directly on the coral is when there was existing dead tissue spots on them. Otherwise they just hang around the base.

so maybe i'm extremely lucky or something, but i've given up on trying to get all the brown acoel worms out of my reef tank. I've been living with them for over a year now with no reprocussions to the heath of the coral. They've never been on the coral itself, just around them, and don't seem to bother anything. Am i crazy??? Or can you acheive a "healthy" reef tank with aceol worms coexisting with the other animals?

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like i was attacking anyone for potentially poisoning hobbyists reef tanks, i was just concerned for the sake of the hobbyist.

I work at Liquid Sunshine tropical fish and briefly battled this stuff when my buddy told me his horror story about it when he noticed it in our tanks. As the hobby is arbitrary, is sounds like we've had different experiences with it then some of you have.

Sean has a great retail storefront as well as a wonderful website that offer a myriad of high end corals for a great price, and i totally support what you are doing and think Cichlids and Salt is a rad place to shop.

Again my concern was for the hobbyist, and since there seems to be little information on this "alga" i wanted to be sure it was okay for reef aquaria.

If anyone does find out what this stuff is, i would love to know.

Thanks for all the great feedback and response to this topic...(rock2)

Eureka!!!

That last one was it, that's the stuff all right. What is it??? A friend of mine battled that stuff for several months, and said it took over his tank, sheltering corals from light, and had to deal with it about everyday or else his corals would be covered in the stuff.

What is it?

Thanks!

Watch out for Brooklynella too, if slime is sluffing off of the fish, it sounds like it could be this.

It is a type of saltwater ich caused by an infestation of a ciliated protozoan called Brooklynella.

It seems the most effective method of treatment is formaldehyde. A 37% solution of formalin and fresh or saltwater in a quarantine tank should do the trick if this is in fact what it is. You can either do a dip or a prolonged bath to eradicate the pathogen, but take care in this as some fish are more sensitive to freshwater dips.

Some people say copper and malachite green work too, but a quarantine tank is always a great way to treat.

I wish you good luck.

It's neither the Botryocladia sp. or the Gracilaria sp. from what i can tell. I am expecting a digital camera in the mail in the next week so i will post a pic of it for all to see, but so far we have not figured out what it is, only that it grows insanely fast covering and sheltering light from coral, possibly having a deleterious effect on the coral.

People seem to be buying this stuff like crazy cuz of it's appeal, but no one seems to know what it is, at least around my neck of the woods.

It's tougher than Botryocladia sp. or the Gracilaria sp. and it "breaks" apart when you pull it out, it's a very firm and soft but solid macro alga/caulerpa that is intense purple.

Hey,

thanks for the ideas, but i don't think we've quite figured it out yet, it is not similar to Botryocladia in color or shape, it is more like a deep purple not reddish burgandy, and it "branches out" in it's shape.

Again my concern is that this is finding it's way into reef tanks without caution, and i can't seem to find it really anywhere at all, i guess hobbyists will find out the hard way if this cannot be Identified.

Thanks for the feedback. Any other ideas out there?

I have been seeing this type of "purple caulerpa" around shops in town and for a pretty price, while i throw it away by the handfuls to stop it from taking over my tank. i cannot find information on this, including the Delbeek/Sprung series and Borneman books. I think this might be something bad that is finding it's way into the tanks of many aquarists, and i just want to make sure it doesn't continue if this is a bad thing.

Has anyone seen this stuff???

Purple branching macroalgae that "breaks" off by ripping it out...

if i had a camera i would post a pic.

Anyone?

I have not seen this one. Would you please post a pic. Thanks

yes, i am in the market for a digital camera right now, and will post a pic as soon as i get one. i like the way the ehiem pump sits on top of the reactor instead of on the side...(rock2)

so that was me who said that, i posted at work, and the owner eric was already logged in, but it is i who would like to thank all of you for your advice...

I was at an amazing town wide garage sale and thought i stumbled upon a brick of gold, only to find that the brick was more like a stick stumbled upon in the forest. An unopened box of 1989 fleer baseball cards, and for a meer $12. I thought if i could find at least one or two rookie cards in the box, it would pay for itself, or even better, the famous cal ripken card with the f**k face written on the end of the bat.

I take it home and open each wax packet feeling very nostalgic, and ultimately as i check the Beckett's pricing book feel much more like an incompetant idiot.

I remember a guy from my youth who invested in what would have seemingly been the gateway to his financial freedom by filling his basement with pallets full of boxes of cards, and now you virtually can't even find a card shop in the phone book.

Have the role playing magic cards taken over a favorite pastime?

What happened?

Yes, that seems to be the only thing negative i have heard about it. But once they are dialed in, the CO2 tank lasts a long time, and the KH and Ca stay stable enough to dismiss investing in a ph controller. I think i'm leaning towards this reactor unless there is other imput to advise otherwise.

What do you all think of the Koralline Calcium Reactors? Are these any good, or have any of you had experience with them? Also, favorite media?

Awesome! Thanks alot for the links, and yes, i would love to check out your tank (impur), maybe sometime my fiance and i can come over and see the tank. We both work at Liquid Sunshine if you wanna stop in, or you can pm me. Thanks again.