andy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Cisco *owns* Linksys. And yeah, good discussion :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Sorry but copyright doesn't work that way. (Being a software programmer I know a bit about copyright law as it relates to software development) If he swiped their code to do the programming then that would be a copyright violation. In this case it is likely even less of a copyright issue since copyright only applies to the software and not the equipment. Patent laws may prevent making copies of the equipment but generally speaking anyone is allowed to modify a piece of equipment as necessary to meet their needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Sorry but copyright doesn't work that way. (Being a software programmer I know a bit about copyright law as it relates to software development) If he swiped their code to do the programming then that would be a copyright violation. In this case it is likely even less of a copyright issue since copyright only applies to the software and not the equipment. Patent laws may prevent making copies of the equipment but generally speaking anyone is allowed to modify a piece of equipment as necessary to meet their needs. I quoted the copyright passage to demonstrate specifically that copyright and thus fair use had nothing to do with this, not to support my argument! and this is why it all goes back to IP for me, I never viewed this as anything to do with copyright laws, and thus nothing to do with FU laws which protect data, not objects. My argument was based solely on the fact that someone is openly advertising haxorz that negate the need to purchase a complete package, thus denying Neptune sales, thus violating industrial property protection, and that Neptune would be within their rights to ask him to stop hosting it on his google account. However at this point I will consider myself owned on three fronts, one because I failed to acknowledge the relationship of Cisco and Linksys in my last example and thus feel like a noob, two because I am not a software developer so can't argue software copyrights (though I don't believe that is at stake), and finally because I want this thread to get back on track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Giving up on a fight because... gasp... it's off topic? That's... that's... against the spirit of the internet, if not downright unAmerican! Fine, be that way. (drinking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I think you may be misinterpreting what IP stands for. IP generally stands for Intellectual Property which is protected by copyright laws. Back on topic, Depending upon the terms I may be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 This is fun, I am ok with learning about the legalities. I hope it doesn't go away. Carry on...back to "NEW" topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I think you may be misinterpreting what IP stands for. IP generally stands for Intellectual Property which is protected by copyright laws. Back on topic, Depending upon the terms I may be interested. "Intellectual property is divided into two categories: Industrial property, which includes inventions (patents), trademarks, industrial designs, and geographic indications of source; and Copyright, which includes literary and artistic works such as novels, poems and plays, films, musical works, artistic works such as drawings, paintings, photographs and sculptures, and architectural designs. Rights related to copyright include those of performing artists in their performances, producers of phonograms in their recordings, and those of broadcasters in their radio and television programs." I am not a generalist! For that matter FU generally means something completely different to almost everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I doubt there is much to the legality unless they can prove that some portion of their intellectual property has been stolen. If I gather correctly that the 3rd party software is just reading and interpreting data from a serial port it would be a real stretch to claim any infringement. A similar example is Garmin GPS. They have proprietary and very expensive maps that they sell separate from their units. There are on the other hand many other programs that can be used to add 3rd party maps and to even interact in real time with the same units. Garmin has no legal right to stop the third party programs or software from being used as long as none of them steal portions of the Garmin software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 "Intellectual property is divided into two categories: Industrial property, which includes inventions (patents), trademarks, industrial designs, and geographic indications of source; and Copyright, which includes literary and artistic works such as novels, poems and plays, films, musical works, artistic works such as drawings, paintings, photographs and sculptures, and architectural designs. Rights related to copyright include those of performing artists in their performances, producers of phonograms in their recordings, and those of broadcasters in their radio and television programs." I am not a generalist! For that matter FU generally means something completely different to almost everyone else. I don't see how inventions (patents), trademarks, industrial designs, and geographic indications of source apply here. If they had patented the serial communication concept then they may have an argument. This only leaves copyright which is where software falls (It's considered a literary and/or artistic work). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 So tell me more about the ac jr. vs. the new rk lite in cost. Here are the links to compare: http://www.neptunesys.com/~clp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=40 http://www.digitalaquatics.com/saltwater/RKL If I am running a small system (<75) with pH control, pump control, temp, and using kalk to dose or maybe two part solution, then I assume both systems are fine for this. Occasional internet monitoring is a possibility. If I buy retail online from lets say.... marine depot then what do I need to get the rc jr totally equipped for my needs and what will it really cost? Will this be around $300 retail delivered to your door? Now lets say 10 people on this site buy an acjr should we expect like a 20% discount or less? Are we talking around 240 to be delivered to my local retailer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCR Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Sooooo that was the thing you all are buying.I'm lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't see how inventions (patents)' date=' trademarks, industrial designs, and geographic indications of source apply here. If they had patented the serial communication concept then they may have an argument. This only leaves copyright which is where software falls (It's considered a literary and/or artistic work).[/quote'] Hi, you were too late to catch me for discussion on this, I already gave up to Andy's superior debate skills, back on target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Here is a nice long read for those wanting to know the intimate details about intellectual property: http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Don't you love that we are working with a 30 year old revision of a 120something year old convention? Seems there is something better to legislate than baseball some times. Same site talks specifically about industrial property in detail elsewhere! Go read my post in the IE8 thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Hi' date=' you were too late to catch me for discussion on this, I already gave up to Andy's superior debate skills, back on target. [/quote'] Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 You've had that saved away, waiting for the perfect thread haven't you Miles. Tell the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Yes!! hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 ROFL!!! Joel. I dont know what they will cost. I know that saltycritter.com has them for $220 with temp probe and DC8. Then the pH probe is $40, so totals out to $260. I want the PC connection cord for another $15. That totals out to $275. The problem is that there is only a couple, maybe 3 people that are interested, and that isn't really much to go to a LFS and say what kind of deal can we get. I am planning to go with Bob, but there's one on RC with everything for $200, I'm just torn...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCR Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Aqua Jr temp probe, DC8 std. ph probe. serial interface $240 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Aqua Jr temp probe' date=' DC8 std. ph probe. serial interface $240[/quote'] With the cord? Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseCityAquarium Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 For a group buy, there would have to be around ten purchased to get a good price. I'm sure Bob or any other lfs could match pricing on these though . There is very little markup on these thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 ROFL!!! Joel. I dont know what they will cost. I know that saltycritter.com has them for $220 with temp probe and DC8. Then the pH probe is $40, so totals out to $260. I want the PC connection cord for another $15. That totals out to $275. The problem is that there is only a couple, maybe 3 people that are interested, and that isn't really much to go to a LFS and say what kind of deal can we get. I am planning to go with Bob, but there's one on RC with everything for $200, I'm just torn...... Dude, if you found it with everything for 200 somewhere, BUY IT!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-3 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I will be getting my Reefkeeper Lite 3 from Nick. Im waiting patiently for the pm when he gets it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Sorry everyone, I will not be in on any group buy. I ended up buying one off RC. Couldn't pass it up including DC8, temp, pH, serial, pc cord and adapter, for $200 shipped. It is used, but not much. However Bob has some good deals to be had on these if you are still looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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