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Glazed

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  1. HMSC Reef Tank maintenance October or November - Whatever works the best for you all; however, and this goes back to what type of commitment to HMSC you are proposing, a one time visit to assess the situation and give me ideas on what to do can happen anytime, and in fact is already happening through the posts. If the plans are for scheduled routine visits, then it is becoming clear this may be a challenge. Truly, I understand we all have busy lives; however because I work with students and aquarists in teaching situations I have to make plans and schedule husbandry duties. When an aquarist, volunteer, or student does not show up as scheduled, it really throws the whole system into a lurch. Communication is the key here, and an e-mail or a call before shift always alleviates the severity of the challenge. I highly appreciate PNWMAS' desire to get and stay involved with this project - John, you and I have discussed this for sometime now, and every member of the club I have met has just been incredibly cordial and helpful by offering so much useful advice; but, I'm sensing a slight amount of hemming and hawing. I'm just saying, if you all truly want to do this - then let’s get it done!
  2. HMSC Reef tank Budget or should I say restrictive budget, or lack of budget is compromising the view. I’ve had to utilize an acrylic aquarium that has some crazing taking affect. Unfortunately that’s life at the Science Center – we do what we can do with what we have to work with. I would love to have the ability to purchase a brand spanking new acrylic tank, but I don’t. Also, the fish, corals, and other inverts seem to be settling in very well, and I would hate to disturb the ecosystem at this point. As for training, we are so education minded we try to turn everything into a learning experience. For us the “why” is the most important step, as opposed to the final product up and running on display step. Sure it’s very cool to have a great end product, but again for us the coolest thing is how you got to the final step – the “why” you did it this or that way. We do impromptu teaching sessions as well as planned sessions. I have volunteers, student workers, and aquarists all willing to learn something new. Designing and scheduling a training program will be the two biggest challenges – something that can’t be done over night. Oh by the way, we do have another reef system up front in the Visitor Center. It's a decent tank that we can work with too. Dennis
  3. I'm still learning how to manuever on the WEB Site. I thought I would post this message again in this area. I posted this yesterday (9/20/09) Greetings all, First off, apologies for my lack of on-going communications -we are going through major remodeling back in the West Wing area, that and getting ready for the new school term has monopolized 99% of time. The other 1% is spent driving from Lincoln City to Newport, and back the other way each evening. Anyway, reef tank – I am adding magnesium, calcium, strontium (did I spell that right?) and iodine on a regular basis. I have ceased using bioballs – still have a bit of an algae problem, but I think it is slowly coming under control. The refugium looks very healthy with decent amounts of halameda (did I spell that right?) growing. I had an aptasia problem, but an addition of a peppermint shrimp has done the trick. The system has a good supply of snails and various crabs as cleaners. Recently I added a cucumber and squamosa clam to the tank. The clam seems to be doing very well – meaning, I’m thinking, the water parameters are pretty good. The cucumber has disappeared somewhere between the rocks and substrate. We also added many clownfish – three different species and they’re doing well. So, overall the system is doing well as the soft corals and such fill in the gaps. I’m always up for adding more to the system, and changing things to better educate the students, although I really don’t want to change too much of the rock formation. As for the Club’s involvement – I still welcome all the help and educating I can get. John mentioned a visit sometime soon in October. I wasn’t sure if this would be the only visit, or one of many, routine visits. Saturday would probably be the best time for visits – just let me know what Saturday in October you would like to make the trip – probably a planning trip for this first visit on October, but I’m open for suggestions. Another thought: I’m wondering if the Club has, or can develop a training type program for beginners, that could at least be used to train my aquarists. I’m sure if the program satisfied Dr. Miller-Morgan’s fish health parameters, we could utilize the club in other educational venues – utilizing the developed training program. Lastly, no matter how good the reef system looks or can look, the tank is compromised just enough to always affect the view. Unfortunately, this is what we have to work with, and really, I would hate to transfer everything to a new tank. Let me know what the plans are when you get it figured out, Dennis
  4. Great to hear the Club is still interested in helping maintain our reef tanks. I understanding being extremely busy and preoccupied. This remodeling project is taking up 99.9% of my time. Hopefully by the end of June everything will be up and running again. I have distributed the flyers, and wish I could attend, but I have a previous engagement that I must attend. As for others from HMSC attending, keep in mind the following week is the last week of the school term and many are deeply involved in studying for finals. I did remove the crushed coral, and the only thing I had available to replace it with was sand, not aragonite or crushed coral (so I realize I have to keep an eye on alkalinity-buffering levels. We have lots of power heads available, and in fact, in addition to having several water-in lines to the main tank, I have added two power heads. There’s tons of circulation within the main tank. Again, next to cleaning up the replacement sea water, acquiring cleaner animals and macro algae are the big challenges. The Visitor Center reef tank is a very basic set-up Two canister filters, two power heads, aragonite or crushed coral substrate, live rock Compact fluorescents: four pin, long or horizontal, not square, 2 Daylight and 2 actinic all 65 Watts Inhabitants: Yellow Tank, Scribbled Rabbit Fish, Orange Spot Watchmen Goby, three Ocellaris clowns, a cleaner shrimp, a coral banded shrimp, and one hermit crab. Take care
  5. To CO2 de-gas or not to de-gas, that is the question, or maybe not. CO2 de-gassing is most beneficial in heavily stocked "fish only" systems; that seems to be a proven fact. The question was if de-gassing would be beneficial in a reef system to control unsightly algae. Considering algae does consume CO2, then obviously restricting the CO2 available may, and I repeat, may have a positive or negative affect on the algae depending on how you look at it. As for our corals being algae based, and please correct me if I'm wrong, corals are animals that utilize oxygen; however the zooxanthellae that live within the tissues of the corals, through the process of photosynthesis (thus utilizing CO2), provide the corals with oxygen, essential to the survival of all living things. Would a de-gassing chamber negatively affect the zooxanthellae – that may be a better question. Unfortunately, I will not be able to answer that question based on the reef system I have. I’ve decided not to incorporate a de-gassing chamber. The quality of the sea water coming in from the bay may indeed be the underlying cause of excessive algae growth in the tank. Again, unfortunately, making our own sea water from mix is just not a feasible or viable option for us. As for checking with EPA on Yaquina Bay water analysis, that’ll take some time, but is well worth checking into. Update on the reef tank: I’ve taken down the old system and replace it with an 80 gallon long reef tank, and a 40 gallon refugium. I’ve eliminated the bio-balls, improved the lighting, and added a very nice skimmer created by one of the Aquarium Science students (Kevin). Also, we are maintaining magnesium, calcium, alkalinity, salinity, and temperature levels where they should be; however, I have not yet replaced the bag holding the phosphate remover. The system is running well, however it is experiencing a pretty good algae bloom (imagine that). I’ll adjust feed amounts and the time the lights stay on. Next, when moving the tank critters over to the new system I discovered I had no snails and only one hermit crab left – replenishing the tank cleaners will be the next step. Also, the macroalgae is doing well, and I’m looking into acquiring more of it – anything but Caulerpa. Lastly, I have not heard much on the Club’s further involvement with the tank. Is this still an option?
  6. Dave, Good point Dave, I had not thought it out that far. Wow! I am making quite a few changes – moving away from bioballs; changing substrate from crushed coral to sand; plumbing in a refugium; switching out old lights for new; and adding a de-gassing tower – again, Wow! I too would like to know what exact affect the de-gassing tower has; and I don’t want to advocate the positive or negative benefits without being somewhat certain. How about this game plan: I make the changes listed above, but valve or by-pass the degassing tower for sometime (not certain how long to wait) to check what affects the other changes have made on the system, and then bring the degassing tower on-line? As for bringing new topics to light, that is the part of my job I enjoy very much, second only to what I enjoy most - talking with clients, club members, and other ornamental fish enthusiasts. My goal is fish health through a sound fish health management plan which incorporates an overall operating system utilizing sound principles, efficient operations, and ease-of-husbandry-care. I find the best away to achieve this goal is to challenge the present “proven to be the best way of doing things” principles or methods. Either the status quo is confirmed or we learn a better way of doing it. I work with many students and the two things I stress are number one, never believe you know it all, and number two, always be open for exploration of new and better methods to supplying our aquatic animal’s needs.
  7. Concerning CO2 build-up to a point where the CO2 directly and negatively affects the animals, I believe this is not a problem within this system – there are ample opportunities for CO2 exchange. However, concerning algae growth, I’m just wondering if there is enough CO2 in the system to positively affect their growth, or even if the algae utilizes it before the CO2 has the chance to off-gas. Honestly, I am certain CO2 is not the major contributing factor to algae growth, but if I could throw together an inexpensive de-gassing tower and apply it to the system, next to costs, is there a downside to this? Can it cause harm to the system? If not, and especially if the CO2 de-gassing tower positively contributes to the health of the animals and the system, would it not be a successful experiment?
  8. John, Our saltwater coming off the bay varies with the amounts of rain and runoff into the bay; however, the physical plant guys try to pump water into the reservoirs at the highest salinities levels. Typically, we maintain 32ppt, and within the tropical, marine aquariums the salinity may fluctuate between 28 and 32ppt. We do not have an ozone generator, PAR meter, or any other specialized equipment. Again, I've been concerned for some time about the quality of saltwater coming into the facility. Obviously, for the flow-through systems there are few problems. It's pretty amazing how just overnight any water remaining within the hose utilized for saltwater delivery goes anaerobic and we have a good amount of hydrogen sulfide build up. This is why we aerate our heated saltwater reservoirs. So, obviously we have plenty of living "stuff" coming in with the water, and this indeed may be the biggest challenge whether the stuff coming in survives or not the raise in temperature from around 48F to 78F. Cleaning up the water will be a big challenge too.
  9. Dave, My interest, mostly curiosity stems from my very limited exposure to CO2 de-gassing; my natural desire (maybe obsession) to learn and improve; and my desire (definitely an obsession) to controlling algae within the reef system. I’m not opposed to the traditional methods – monitoring lighting, controlling nutrients and nitrates, cleaner inverts etc. – I’m just exploring in efforts to cover all of the possible bases. I survived a week-long intensified recirculating aquaculture systems course in West Virginia a few years ago where the emphasis was on aquaculture and maintaining huge populations of fish within recirculating systems, hence high levels of CO2, the need to remove it, and the use of de-gassing towers to accomplish the task. Also, I understand how the standard wet/dry trickle system is a sort of mini-degassing system too, but I’m wondering if a full-blown, degassing tower could be applied to the ornamental fish keeping hobby. I believe it would be beneficial in a heavily fish populated system; however, because reef systems are not typically heavily stocked with fish, de-gassing of CO2 may not be necessary or even beneficial. Also consider the practice of removing or lowering nutrient loads (nitrates) basically to starve out the algae, and so with that same thinking pattern, I wondered (total shot in the dark) if starving algae of their CO2 requirements might have the same affect. Keep in mind how our beneficial bacteria utilize CO2 as their carbon source, and how thrusting the good guys (the bacteria) into competition against the bad guys (algae) for CO2 consumption may not be the wisest thing to do. Bottom line, I’m just “fishing” for thoughts on the subject.
  10. Moving forward John, that’s a good one – I was actually thinking about a tower filled with bioballs along with having a good current of air flowing upward through the bioballs as water trickled downward to remove CO2. The funny part is about 10 seconds after posting the question about degassing I realized I was actually still advocating bioball use. (nutty) Believe it or not, I’m really swaying away from their use, and as far as I am concerned, we can move beyond that subject; however I am curious, would removing CO2 from a system affect algae growth? Skimmers: I have not yet utilized Kevin’s skimmer – but it’s on the agenda to hook it up to the new system. Lighting: I am in the process of replacing bulbs Source Water: I think this is a challenge we should further look into; however, EPA is pretty stringent on what allowed to be released into the bay. Still, I’m thinking the nutrient levels may be high as well as the load of microscopic animals not surviving the water temperature increase from 48F to 78F. Removal of crushed coral substrate: I am working on changing the substrate, and we do use filter socks. Again, the other thing I would like to set up is a refugium. (waving) Dennis
  11. Good discussions – I really appreciate the comments whether we agree or not. In my opinion it’s the best way to learn - research, word-of-mouth shared experiences, and basically trial and error. I really like the idea of going natural and self sustaining as possible, and in fact it’s what drew me into the reef keeping experience. I’m all for getting away from the bioballs on the reef system, but honestly if my success is based on the efficient use of a protein skimmer, that’s becomes down right scary. I have not yet met a non-finicky skimmer. Refugiums on the other hand are very cool! I believe that is the direction in which I would like to take our reef tank - remove the bioballs, incorporate a more user friendly skimmer, and develop a refugium for the system. With that in mind, and because I’m under a bit of time crunch pressure to move the present system (stimulus funds used by the end of June), I’m going to go ahead and use our student workforce to set it up soon; however, this is not to discourage the Club’s help, and in fact any redesign, change of plans, adaptations, etc. are still welcomed as topics of discussion and possible doable projects. Lastly, I would like to begin a discussion on CO2 degassing towers, as a means to control algae growth – any thoughts on this subject?
  12. Very interesting discussions going on here concerning bioballs, no bioballs, and nitrate removal - I think we all agree high nitrate levels in the aquarium can be detrimental to the health of the aquarium inhabitants. Typically, I have mostly dealt with fish and invertebrates other than corals, and so I was never too concerned with the nitrate levels. My goal was keeping nitrate levels low, but really, anything under 20ppm was doable. Consequently, keeping healthy corals is still a new process for me. I have just begun to understand how levels of nitrates over 5ppm can be very harmful to corals and nitrate levels below 2ppm are the better goal to shoot for. So, all discussion on nitrate levels, and how to battle the pesky creatures are welcomed with an open mind. I really believe it is a husbandry issue, not a bioball issue - our systems are only as good as we maintain them. With that said, I think I’ve got the bioball controversy nailed down to the following three arguments: Argument 1: Whereas the use of bioballs was once an acceptable method of biological conversion of ammonia to nitrate by reef aquarium enthusiasts, at some point in history, it became an unacceptable method (for various reasons not necessarily substantiated) and non use of bioballs presently remains the general consensus of thought. This argument seems to be based on, “I removed my bioballs and the nitrate levels went down” and “this I how it’s been done for a long time”. Argument 2: The level of bioconversion through the use of bioballs is high (meaning it works well in converting ammonia to nitrate); however, those nitrates basically accumulate within the sump, and are not afforded the chance to be denitrified. This argument suggests the removal of the bioballs in order to concentrate the nitrate formation – reduction within the live rock crevices. Argument 3: Bioballs work; however excessive amounts of detritus collect on the bioballs, rendering them useless in addition to bioball detritus building up and contributing to nitrate and phosphate production. This argument suggests excessive detritus builds up because the bioballs basically are serving as a trap – no bioballs, no trap, no detritus build up. This argument may also suggest excessive amounts of biowaste accumulation formed from the heavy loads of beneficial bacteria growing on the bioballs – again, remove the bioballs, remove the accumulation of the biowaste or detritus. My response to all three arguments: First off, I want to explain my use of the term bioconverter as opposed to biofilter. Think about it – we are not filtering out ammonia and nitrites – we are bioconverting the two products. I like the term bioconverter, and I am making every attempt to use it. A healthy bioconverter produces nitrates – it’s a sign that the system is working. Nitrate production is directly related to ammonia production and ammonia oxidation to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate. Within a stable and balanced bioconversion system, we can safely say the more detritus (dead stuff accumulating within the tank) we have in the system and the more food we feed, the more ammonia, nitrites and nitrates we’ll have in the system. Thus, more detritus = more ammonia = more nitrates (typically). Of course too much ammonia introduced too suddenly may negatively affect the bioconverter, and instead of having an increase in nitrates, we will have an increase in ammonia and nitrites (That’s a different topic for later discussion). Moving on, this beneficial bacteria needs a home (a specific amount of biomedia surface area) upon which they can attach; however more biomedia surface present than what we actually need to house the bacteria that are present, does not equate into a production of extra bacteria which some would say subsequently equates to higher levels of nitrates (the nitrate factory syndrome). Let’s be clear, in very basic terms, nitrate levels are determined by three factors: 1. Detritus levels 2. Ammonia and nitrite oxidation 3. Means or lack of means of removing nitrate Reducing detritus levels: First step to lowering our nitrate levels Increase mechanical filtration – clean mechanical filter material often Increase and redirect water movement within the tank Routine substrate siphoning Weekly water quality checks for ammonia – to determine if something has died within the tank Feed appropriate amounts to our inhabitants – remove excessive uneaten food Introduce tank cleaners – crabs, snails, etc Use a foam fractionator (a protein skimmer) but keep in mind the skimmer is there to remove detritus and protein solids before they decompose and oxidize down to nitrates. Protein skimmers are a pre-bioconversion factor – not an end-of-the-line, after bioconversion factor. Manage the bioball sump: Have plenty of void space around the balls allowing more water movement around the balls, introduce aeration into the bioball mass, and provide a sump clean-out valve allowing biomedia biowaste to be easily removed from the system – get rid of the detritus and the detritus trapping means rather than removing the beneficial bioballs housing the beneficial bacteria. Bioconversion and bioconverter management: Second step to lowering our nitrate levels Provide the biomedia Keep the media free of detritus (By the way, this means live rock too – a build up of mulm, detritus or whatever on our live rock will inhibit bioconversion there too) Aerate Provide plenty of void space allowing movement of water through the biomedia Nitrate removal: Third step to lowering our nitrate levels Lower detritus levels Lower nutrient levels Do weekly water exchanges Consider a mechanical denitrator Introduce plants to the system – within a refugium Understand how the beneficial bacteria operate within the balanced aquatic ecosystem In conclusion: I’m really not trying to staunchly defend bioball usage, but we can not dispute the fact they are proven to work quite well. In fact, some would say too well, but they would be wrong – bioballs do not produce nitrates – it’s the beneficial bacteria attached to the bioballs that produce the nitrates. In my opinion the real culprit is detritus build up and lack of removal of that detritus – remove the detritus, not the bioballs. Really, when we discuss nitrates in the aquarium, we are discussing two equally important processes – nitrate formation and nitrate removal. Nitrate formation, is directly related to bioconverter, beneficial bacteria management. Nitrate removal is a whole different beast, but for sure, the less nitrates we have to remove, the less denitrification needed. Even so, I think it is very important to realize nitrate formation is a great sign that our bioconverter is working, and if we have a well working bioconverter, yet still have high nitrate levels that really becomes a husbandry issue, not a bioball issue.
  13. Greetings, Many, many thanks to the club for the wonderful food and company at Saturday’s picnic; we are looking forward to next year’s visit. Also, many thanks for the gracious donations – the test kits are in good use, and now that we have a light over them, the corals, polyps, and plants, are doing well too. We thought you might like to know we have begun a very diligent water quality testing routine on the reef tank back in the West Wing area. Here are the results so far: Phosphate < 0.02, Magnesium 1080 (I’ve begun adding magnesium to the tank), Calcium had dropped to 240 (added calcium), Nitrates 6.3 (I guess for the moment, the nitrate factory went on strike, took a leave of absence, took stimulus funds and went vacationing), pH 8.2, Alkalinity 10dkh, and temperature 78F. I've begun researching the use, or lack of use of bioballs in the reef tank, and would appreciate any links to credible literature on why bioball use is not a good thing for reef systems. I did however read one article describing a highly beneficial nitrate production -denitrification process that took place on and within the live rock compared to the highly detrimental process of nitrate production - no denitrification process that took place within the location of the bioballs. It seems in the author's mind, nitrates formed from bacteria on the bioballs basically just float around the aquarium (not making their way into the anaerobic, denitrification zones within the crevices of the live rock) and thus building up into one huge alga encouraging, invertebrate destroying mess of nitrates. In simple terms, live rock promotes nitrification AND denitrification (end product nitrogen gas) whereas biological filtration within the bioball media just promotes nitrification (end product nitrates). So, really, excessive nitrification is not the problem (nitrate production is directly related to ammonia-nitrogen production - Do we NOT want all of the ammonia-nitrogen nitrified?) lack of denitrification is the real culprit. Too many nitrates is directly related to too much ammonia-nitrogen and the amount of or lack of denitrification going on within the reef system. Anyway, we’ve begun working with an Aquarium Science Student on designing a new reef tank system. We are waiting anxiously to see what kind and what level of involvement PNWMAS as a club decides on for the systems. Again, any involvement of any type is always much appreciated by us, please, just keep us filled in on what you all decide to do. Again, thank you, and keep up the good work! Sincerely, Dennis Glaze and Dr. Tim Miller-Morgan
  14. 2nd Attempt Appreciate Help I can't find my first "Appreciate Help" post so I’ll try again! I'm looking forward to your visit and the barbeque this coming Saturday. We have a 100 gallon reef tank up and running. We use it as an educational tank, and so the tank has been up, down and reconfigured many times. The overall system has never been close to perfect - we have cyanobacteria and hair algae challenges. Also, our hard corals are not doing well, and I have not been able to keep any pulsating xenias alive very long. We have tons of live rock, many clownfish, one blue tang, two royal grammas, peppermint shrimp and hermit crabs - snails don't last long either. I would love to acquire a lawn mower blenny. As for donations, we have tons of holding capacity, and we are in the process of setting up a second reef tank - between 150-200 gallons. This tank needs sanded and buffed first. Dr. Miller-Morgan and I are fish health and life support specialists - not marine aquarium specialists and so any thing new we learn will of course be helpful towards analyzing marine ornamental fish/invertebrate health concerns. If PNWMAS has club members willing to put in the time, energy, and work - maybe this second tank would be a good project for the Club to sponsor, teach with, and help maintain. Just an idea that we can talk more about during your visit So again, I want to thank you for your continued help and donations
  15. Appreciate the help Here's the skinny on our reef tank situation: We have a tank (~100 gallons) that's been up/down/up and running for a few years now. We use it as a teaching tank, allowing students (mostly from the Aquarium Science Program) to tinker with it, maintain it, change filtration dynamics, etc. In the tank we have tons of live rock, many clownfish, royal grammas, blue tang, peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, and snails. We have an anemone, polyps, and some hard corals - however we have never really worked out our lighting situation very well, and so the hard corals do not do well, and we have the typical cynobacteria and hair algae challenges. As for the second tank, it's between 150-200 gallons (I'm at home right now and so I can't get the measurements to say for sure). Anyway, some of you may remember the Wet Pet Room we had up front in our Visitor Center. The reef tank we had up there is the one we have re-acquired to use in the back area. I have not set it up yet - I need to sand and buff the acrylic first. We do have a ton of holding capacity for donations while in the process of setting up this new tank. Here's the good part: Dr. Miller-Morgan and myself are fish health and life support sytem specialists - not marine aquarium specialists. Any education towards assembling and maintaining marine aquariums only enhances our abilities to help others with their fish health problems. If PNWMAS has members willing to put in the time, effort and energy - this new tank situation may be an excellent vehicle for an even better relationship with the Club, the coastal community, students and prospectful members to the Club. I'm up for any teaching and help you all can offer - in any form possible. The keys to a successful relationship are good planning and consistency in whatever we do. Looking forward to your visit!
  16. First, please have patience with me as I get comfortable manuevering around the site. Second, I wanted to thank everyone who visited the Science Center this Sunday. I hope you enjoyed the tour, Newport and the beaches - I always enjoy talking with those deeply involved in ornamental fish keeping of all types. I learn so much with each get together. Also, it really feels like we have set the ground work for a very productive relationship between PNWMAS and the Ornamental Fish Health Program. The possibilities are endless, and I am very anxious to begin working on ways to incorporate the many ideas we discussed - again, please be patient, things work pretty slow around here! As for somewhat of an introduction of myself: I graduated from Oregon Coast Community College's Aquarium Science Program over a year ago. I was enrolled in the very first class to go through the program, and have developed a very close affection for the program. At the very least I can say the program cranks out responsible, energetic individuals that love this world of aquatic animals. While enrolled in the program I had the good fortune, if not blessing to hook up with Dr. Miller-Morgan. As many of you are aware of, I was very instrumental in building the Visitor Center's Wet Pet Room. Dr. Tim and I have talked so much about improving the room, but haven't found the means and ways to do that until now, after talking with you all. Again, this is very exciting stuff! Eventually, Dr. Tim hired me as his full time assistant and my job title became Aquatic Animal Husbandry and Health Specialist. Wow! That's a mouthful to say. Our primary concern is fish health and being available to help hobbyist, retailers, wholesalers, club memebers etc. in any way we possibly can. Amazingly, considering how much and how long I have loved ornamental fish keeping, and with my last four years of experience, one might think I had acquired tons of valuable information concerning the trade, and I have, but I am certain not on the knowledge level of you all. Basically, in a few choice areas I feel well qualified to hold my own, but in many areas I fell like a rookie and so I look forward to gaining volumes of knowledge from you all.
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