markdadof2 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Kris - I had the same low phosphate level when I tested PE mysis. No doubt the pellets I tested earlier were LOADED with phosphates. I know know why I'm starting the algae battle - time to up my water changes or get a phosban reactor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriswaters Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 I think that feeding, or overfeeding will be the main culpret in this thing. Add in bad water and bam...algae hell. My tank already looks loads better. The fox face is fat and happy, yet pooping up a storm! Today, I added a blue tang. At last, a tank big enough to hold the fish i want! Back to the main issue...food. We need to feed. Are there foods out there that contain more phosphates then others...yes. I again want to thank two of our LFS that have brought this subject up for discussion. Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowman Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I have to throw in my $.02 here. I have had numerous systems, and I have never had to fight hair algae. Knock on wood. I feed my tank 3 days a week, and I feed heavily. I have never used any type of dried food. I always have a big clean up crew, a big refugium, a bigger than advised skimmer. I have always been afraid of the dang phosban and other products like it. I've heard too many bad things about them. In my experience, the best thing you can do for this problem is to overskim and have a refugium with a few different macro algae in it. Also, you need to keep your magnesium levels above 1450. I'm sure there are folks who have doen the same things as me and have hair algae, and now that I have opened my big yapper, I'm going to wake up some morning and have a big outbreak of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I have to throw in my $.02 here. I have had numerous systems, and I have never had to fight hair algae. Knock on wood. I feed my tank 3 days a week, and I feed heavily. I have never used any type of dried food. I always have a big clean up crew, a big refugium, a bigger than advised skimmer. I have always been afraid of the dang phosban and other products like it. I've heard too many bad things about them. In my experience, the best thing you can do for this problem is to overskim and have a refugium with a few different macro algae in it. Also, you need to keep your magnesium levels above 1450. I'm sure there are folks who have doen the same things as me and have hair algae, and now that I have opened my big yapper, I'm going to wake up some morning and have a big outbreak of it. I don't think you will have an outbreak. I fully agree with almost everything. I think that carbon is the only thing to run in a phosban "reactor". I don't think that more than one macro in your refugium helps much. I like chaeto only for fuge and at least 20% display volume for fuge. Also it's important to give your fuge enough light, 20% of display wattage if you can. But I do like some other macro in the display. Also I think that overskimming is only needed if you are going to overstock with fish or a bad mix of corals. I had a skimmer that most would say was underskimming, but it produced the same skimmate when on for 12 hours a day as 24 hours. I feel like it was skimming everything that could be skimmed. This was on my system before I moved and now I have less skimmers running and still doing alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 fwiw i'm about one month away from the 2 year mark and have run a a reactor with phosban, with only positive effects to date..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I also agree on a phosban reactor. I have run one from day one on my small tank with no issues. Yank has been up for a year and only get a small amount of algea on the glass. Maybe a small growth of hair every once in a whilte and the fish eat it right away. I run my water into a carbon reactor then into the phosban reactor. I also over feed my tank as I like to feed all the corals and fish plus keep the CUC happy so they do not kill each other. And when it comes time to feed the sun coral and the duncans my tank becomes a clouded mess but the acans and palys love it. So I know that I am puting phospates into the ststem but they seem to stay in check as I do get my water tested here in there. Last time phosphates were .02 on a Hannah meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 If I remember right, I heard/read somewhere that macro algae needs about 4 nitrates for every phosphate that is removed. If the system does not have nitrates in it, then the refugium will not help remove phosphates. That is why my phosphates shot up as my tank matured. denitrification was occuring in the rocks to remove nitrates, but the phosphates were not removed. Macroalgae in the system was limited to the amount of phosphate that it could uptake. Leading to a buildup of phosphates, but undetectable nitrates. Now I run a phosphate reactor... Life is better. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 If I remember right, I heard/read somewhere that macro algae needs about 4 nitrates for every phosphate that is removed. If the system does not have nitrates in it, then the refugium will not help remove phosphates. That is why my phosphates shot up as my tank matured. denitrification was occuring in the rocks to remove nitrates, but the phosphates were not removed. Macroalgae in the system was limited to the amount of phosphate that it could uptake. Leading to a buildup of phosphates, but undetectable nitrates. Now I run a phosphate reactor... Life is better. dsoz Good point. I can see this happen. Although it has not happened in any of my systems yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Dennis, that is interesting about the nitrate ratio to phosphates. I knew that plantlife needed nitrates for nutrients as well as phosphates, but did not think about the ratio. I wanted to ask about other passive chemical products in relation to phospates and nitrates. I know some dislike things like chemipure or purigen, but why. Seems like lots of folks use phosphate reactors and carbon. Is it considered cheating or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I personally just try to make my tanks as simple as can be. I don't need it so I don't use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I wouldn't say it cheating, right equipment for the right job. For me its a guarantee that my water parameters are going to stay constant, thus providing a happier healthier environment for my corals. I definitely don't want phosphates in my water column, or building up in my substrate and live rock, nor do I want the nitrates required for the macro algae to be able to consume the phosphates, therefore I use phosban and a reactor. Cheating is when you break the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I wouldn't say it cheating' date=' right equipment for the right job. For me its a guarantee that my water parameters are going to stay constant, thus providing a happier healthier environment for my corals. I definitely don't want phosphates in my water column, or building up in my substrate and live rock, nor do I want the nitrates required for the macro algae to be able to consume the phosphates, therefore I use phosban and a reactor. Cheating is when you break the rules.[/quote'] Right..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Right..... care to elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Just agreeing that Cheating is when you break the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Think about fertilizer... The three numbers on the bag/box 1:3:1 N:P:K (nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium). They are in a ratio that is best for the plants it is used for. Grass needs more nitrogen, vegetables and flowers need more phosphorous, and all plants need potassium (potash). AFAIK, purigen or chemipure are just fancy packaged activated carbon. I could be wrong. Not using phosphate reactors is in the same league, IMO, as not using a skimmer. Some use it, some don't. Some get the biggest, baddest, skimmer that they can find, some don't skim at all. I prefer to skim lightly, and I prefer to remove the consequences of my over-feeding by using a phosphate reactor. If I was rich, I would get two or three more just to have the capacity to remove every trace of phosphate that is in my tank. I started out using the phosphate sponge. Little white bits that you put in for a day. Any longer, and the phosphate was supposed to leak back out. Now get this... To recharge it, you bake it in the oven for a couple of hours, then put it back in your tank... Nobody has been able to tell me how baking in the oven gets rid of the phosphates. It is not near hot enough to decompose them... IDK. Once all my white phosphate sponge was used up I switched to GFO (granulated ferric oxide) in a phosphate reactor. I know I am not using it right because I am getting rust forming all over my tank. I need to replace the media, and turn down the flow... Next time I have some free time. Maybe I'll try a different media next time. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I have other reasons to not use it than I stated before. I don't because it might take out some good stuff that my macro wants to use. If I had much pest algae or my corals didn't look good, I would do water changes and consider using some phosphate remover as a first thought because I know this wouldn't hurt anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 if its not broke don't fix it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 anyone interested in a GFO or carbon reactor check out this site. great prices. a few people here locally are using them and like them. Im gonna order one on payday. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Carbon-and-Phosphate-Remover-GFO-Media-Bags-&-Reactors/c109_85/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 anyone interested in a GFO or carbon reactor check out this site. great prices. a few people here locally are using them and like them. Im gonna order one on payday. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Carbon-and-Phosphate-Remover-GFO-Media-Bags-&-Reactors/c109_85/index.html I buy alot of stuff from them and on my new set up am going to run there dual unit. It looks sweet and can not wait to try it out. I use the normal ones now and do not like the way they work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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