fishmanmike01 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I am now starting to dose two part solutions. I am still a little confused about alk.From what i understand alkalinity and carbonate hardness are basicly the same thing right? And alkalinity directly affects ph, so can i monitor my alk simply by watching my ph and dose when it starts to fall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This article helps explain a bit but may not help your confusion. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2002/chemistry.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Thank you, Im not a chemist so that just made my brain boil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Thank you' date=' Im not a chemist so that just made my brain boil.[/quote'] I am a chemist... or at least I teach chemistry... reading something like that makes my brain boil too, sometimes. Alkalinity is the same thing as carbonate hardness, and it does interact with pH, but is not directly related. You cannot monitor the alk just by watching the pH. You need to test for alk if you want to know about alk. Adding alk does increase the pH, but it is only one factor in the equation. The best thing to do is to get a calcium test kit (not a cheap, inacurate, one. Get a good one) and an alkalinity test kit. test your tank before and after adding your two part. Let the tank circulate for a couple of hours after adding so it can mix before you test. Test (Calcium, alkalinity, and pH) your tank for several days in a row to see how it behaves (write it all down so you don't have to remember all the numbers). then adjust your additions accordingly. If your numbers don't change, SLOWLY increase the amount that you dose. If your numbers go WAY UP, then decrease the amount that you are dosing. Don't forget to add Magnesium every now and then. Corals use it too, just not as much as Ca and alk. dsoz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 so i guess my next question is how do you raise ph without raising alk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 One approach is to increase oxygenation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 so i guess my next question is how do you raise ph without raising alk? Have you tested your alk? If it is low, it is probably because your alk is low. Alk acts as a pH buffer, and it keeps pH in balance at the right spot. If Alk is at the right level, it is really hard to get pH out of whack. Otherwise, you could use a basic product like sodium hydroxide (lye), but that is a little bit harsh for our tanks. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yes tested at cal 440 alk 9 dkh ph 7.95ish to 8.18ish Dkh should be around 11 with cal at 440 right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Those numbers look good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I agree, that swing is fine to my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 One approach is to increase oxygenation. What would be the best way to do this? One of those air stones in the sump? I would like my ph in the 8.2-8.4 range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 More macro algae. =) Reverse daylight photoperiod refugium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yup, more stuff photosynthesizing -- coral, macro, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 I run the photoperiod in my refugium 24/7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I prefer chaeto only in the fuge and 8 hours without light, a rest. But that shouldn't be the issue here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm pretty sure your pH is fine were it is at. ph 7.95ish to 8.18ish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Im shure that it is fine, its just i have read that calcification is it its optimal level at around 8.4 and i would like to accommodate that if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't push my tanks that hard, although I think they hit 8.4 from time to time. Maybe a calcium reactor is needed. Anyway, someone else will have the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 A calcium reactor will drop pH -- the effluent has a relatively low pH (from the CO2, necessary to dissolve the aragonite). Dripping kalk will raise pH, but I wouldn't do it without a controller... a slipup can easily nuke the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I realize the calcium reactor will drop pH, otherwise it would not work, but I thought that the low pH should not reach the display. I know my refugiums would take that CO2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 And then the raise in alk and cal would stabilize pH higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Unfortunately, the low pH of the effluent will affect the tank. People often mitigate this by using a second reaction chamber or dripping kalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePremiumAquarium Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Or if you get real trixy, you could just add another sump with live rock next to the sump holding the calcium reactor and its effluent. This will allow for increased stability and will keep your sump water more equal with that of your tank. I like volume and space for more live rock or algae (whistle) Raising your ph really isn't crucial or anything that I would worry at all about Mike. I think the numbers that you posted look pretty hot to me. Add a bag of nice carbon near a high flow area in your sump and you should notice a clarity increase if that is an issue at all for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadReefer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Unfortunately' date=' the low pH of the effluent will affect the tank. People often mitigate this by using a second reaction chamber or dripping kalk.[/quote'] When I get a calcium reactor on my dream tank, I hope to have an upstream fuge that is 50% of the display volume. Maybe I'm just a crazy algae lover, but I think this will take care of the CO2 that would cause the low pH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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