Barebottom Question

[ShoeCrew]

Hello everyone,

I am setting up my first barebottom tank. I followed the general advice and got a black king starboard cut. Against my best efforts there is a little bit of gap across all the edges. I am getting paranoid regarding trapping detritus on these edges. How do you setup your barebottom with king starboard? Do you silicone it to the bottom of the tank? For some reason siliconing to the bottom of the tank feels awful. It feels like I am ruining the tank.

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Ummm your tank is built with silicone so how would that be wrecking it? 

Besides, silicone wont stick to the starboard all that much. Like.. it can be easily removed.

[spectra]

why the star board ?

 

running a 20 gallon now bare bottom and just left the glass............ it works.......

[ShoeCrew]

Well once you go with starboard and silicone, even if you remove the starboard, the silicone will remain at the bottom of the tank.

[Parzifal]

The black probably leaves a nice looking bottom.  Would love to see pics

[Higher Thinking]

I recall reading all about people using star board for bare bottom when I set my tank up. It made me think I needed to do that too. The more I thought about it though, it just seemed unnecessary. Aesthetically, it will get covered all the same by coralline. Structurally, it would take a very significant rock impact to actually crack the bottom panel. Set your hard scape up correctly and it will not be a problem. 

What size tank?

[ShoeCrew]

It is a Red Sea p500. The area around the tower has less than 1/4” space. The rest of the areas have a gap of about 1/16”. 

[ShoeCrew]

I kind of like the look of glass more than the plastic but I am planning to use cured rock. I believe I need to somehow flatten the bottom of the rocks without drying them before placing in if I go with glass only. 

[ShoeCrew]

[Matteo]

Personal opinion but I really don't like bare bottom tanks. 

The glass gets dirty, you'll see detritus, and any fish or invert that needs a little sand is now off the stocking list. 

 

I also think non sanded tanks look unnatural and you lose the benefit of having bacteria and other goodies in the sand. 

 

Like I said personal opinion 🤷‍♂️

[danlu_gt]

My last tank was kinda bare bottom.  The glass bottom was clear so when I put styrofoam insulator between the stand and tank, I put the reflective aluminum side facing up.  Pro:  You get light reflecting off the bottom back up toward the corals to fill in more shadows.  Con:  You don't get nice looking contrast when viewing from top down.  Once you fill with water, you won't see the reflective aluminum from the front or sides of the tank unless you look from top down.

My current tank have black starboards already installed at the bottom.  I do miss having some light bouncing into the caves but no big deal.

If you have stable/secure aquascape and don't but large heavy tiles that can be knocked over by snails, then you don't really need to have the starboards.  If you worry about having pressure points where rocks sit on the glass, you a band saw or dremel tool to flatten where the rock would sit on the glass.

[ShoeCrew]

I agree with you about the aesthetics. On the other hand siphoning sand is really an unpleasant activity. It is usually the thing I detest most. When it is not done, things begin to go south after some time. I would rather have a sustainable cleaning routine than a show tank. My hope and plan is to place power heads in 3 bottom corners to reduce detritus build up. 

[ShoeCrew]

35 minutes ago, danlu_gt said:

My last tank was kinda bare bottom.  The glass bottom was clear so when I put styrofoam insulator between the stand and tank, I put the reflective aluminum side facing up.  Pro:  You get light reflecting off the bottom back up toward the corals to fill in more shadows.  Con:  You don't get nice looking contrast when viewing from top down.  Once you fill with water, you won't see the reflective aluminum from the front or sides of the tank unless you look from top down.

My current tank have black starboards already installed at the bottom.  I do miss having some light bouncing into the caves but no big deal.

If you have stable/secure aquascape and don't but large heavy tiles that can be knocked over by snails, then you don't really need to have the starboards.  If you worry about having pressure points where rocks sit on the glass, you a band saw or dremel tool to flatten where the rock would sit on the glass.

I like the contrast between the bottom and the rock. Is your starboard attached to the tank with silicone? How much space do you have between the glass and the edges of the starboard? If you have space, do you trap detritus on the edges? 
 

Yes, I worry about the pressure points. That is the main reason for starboard for me. I was thinking of filing it on pavement. I did it to a couple sizable pieces and it kind of works but if I use cured live rock that is attached to each other through epoxy and whatnot, that will fall apart. Band saw is a good idea.   I was also thinking marine epoxy and a small piece of acrylic for the areas that are touching to the bottom. 

[islandVib3s]

14 hours ago, ShoeCrew said:

I like the contrast between the bottom and the rock. Is your starboard attached to the tank with silicone? How much space do you have between the glass and the edges of the starboard? If you have space, do you trap detritus on the edges? 
 

Yes, I worry about the pressure points. That is the main reason for starboard for me. I was thinking of filing it on pavement. I did it to a couple sizable pieces and it kind of works but if I use cured live rock that is attached to each other through epoxy and whatnot, that will fall apart. Band saw is a good idea.   I was also thinking marine epoxy and a small piece of acrylic for the areas that are touching to the bottom. 

I like bare bottom but I don't know about the insert on the bottom if its not completely flush,alot of crap can get under it and who knows how hard it would be to clean later down the road with rocks,corals on top of it. There is black Hawaiian sand also. You can also try a belt sander or even take it outside and scrape it on the concrete til you get it to how you want it. I had a couple nanos that I started bare bottom without a insert,about 2 months later I added sand to about a half to full inch.you can also try filling the rock with coral epoxy and setting it in place to form your own flat bottom. Idk. It only lasted a couple months, benefits to not adding a insert is you can just add the sand later.

[Higher Thinking]

While you can see the detritus that builds up on bare bottom tanks, that's also the biggest benefit. You can just siphon it all super easily. When you have sand, you're never able to clean up the detritus as easily. Always pros and cons. 

[islandVib3s]

3 hours ago, Higher Thinking said:

While you can see the detritus that builds up on bare bottom tanks, that's also the biggest benefit. You can just siphon it all super easily. When you have sand, you're never able to clean up the detritus as easily. Always pros and cons. 

Agreed. If I go bare bottom again ill have a massive sump with tons of rock or walls of bio balls lol and maybe a tiny refugium. 

[ShoeCrew]

Thanks for all the great feedback. I decided to remove the insert. I had some questions about stocking.

The main reason for going barebottom is for maintenance reduction. 
 
1-is it possible to use mainly auto feeder and achieve success for the long term? I mean is it possible to avoid frozen food and nori for the most part. May be once a week or two. I was thinking of using several auto feeders with different fish food. For example, one freeze dried mysis, one with mainly herbivore pellets, and another you name it. And may be 2-3x total feedings per day. The pumps will be timed accordingly and proper feeding rings for each auto feeder.
 

2-if so which fish would fit this scheme?

3-What is the longest time that you can go to vacation for? (I know it feels orthogonal but it is also a fubction of the live stock. )

Thanks for reading:)

[islandVib3s]

2 hours ago, ShoeCrew said:

Thanks for all the great feedback. I decided to remove the insert. I had some questions about stocking.

The main reason for going barebottom is for maintenance reduction. 
 
1-is it possible to use mainly auto feeder and achieve success for the long term? I mean is it possible to avoid frozen food and nori for the most part. May be once a week or two. I was thinking of using several auto feeders with different fish food. For example, one freeze dried mysis, one with mainly herbivore pellets, and another you name it. And may be 2-3x total feedings per day. The pumps will be timed accordingly and proper feeding rings for each auto feeder.
 

2-if so which fish would fit this scheme?

3-What is the longest time that you can go to vacation for? (I know it feels orthogonal but it is also a fubction of the live stock. )

Thanks for reading:)

I wouldn't trust auto feeders because they will fail.i havent taken a vacation because I didn't feel my tank was stable enough but it is now. Advise a Apex controller to keep updates on parameters. Im to cheap for alex atm but I have a camera so if I have service I can check in and also have digital read outs I can see from camera. Mainly temp and PH  and have a gravity fed auto top off with float valve. Growing macroalgea could help with the algea eaters.idk something will fail,just have to be ready for it.good luck

Also I try to have a balance with stock. Clowns,lawnmower blenny(cleaner), scopas tang(cleaner),6line(cleaner),plus hermits,snails,starfish,macroalgea in sump all in a 40 breeder.

Edited July 11, 2021 by islandVib3s
Update

[ShoeCrew]

I have kept various ~30gallon saltwater tanks since 2007 with a 4 year gap total through out this time. The longest vacation I was able to manage without losing fish and coral was about 3 weeks. Even though  I did not lose corals and fish, algae blooms and general tank health took a couple months to recover. During that 3 weeks it still required somebody to enter the house and put water into the auto-top off tank. I had great luck with the zacro auto feeder.

So far I have been using the digital aquatics reef keeper lite. It does a great job but no email/text notification. 

I am eyeing ghl systems for the reliability/quality of the optical float switches. 

[Higher Thinking]

You can definitely get by with auto feeders. There aren't too many fish that will only eat frozen. Most fish in the industry can get by with pellet and freeze dried. You algae loving tangs will appreciate sheets of nori, but the extent will be tank size dependant. If the tank is big enough, they're likely able to forage around for quite some time. And you can provide nori intermittently. As you are researching fish, just avoid those that are finicky eaters. 

The duration of how long a tank can be left alone involves too many variables to predict. The biggest issue is top off water, feeding, and monitoring the overflow (assuming you have one). Then there's dosing or CaRx maintenance if that applies to you. However, all of those things can be set up in such a way that you could technically leave it indefinitely. The problems arise when...well....the problems arise. 

Something goes crazy with the overflow? That could mean trouble. Reactor has a problem? There's another ordeal. All in all, you will be the best person to determine how well your tank can cruise. You just have to recognize how often you do little adjustments or changes and then consider what it would be like if you weren't around to do them. No one should be tied down by their tank. 

[ShoeCrew]

20 hours ago, Higher Thinking said:

You can definitely get by with auto feeders. There aren't too many fish that will only eat frozen. Most fish in the industry can get by with pellet and freeze dried. You algae loving tangs will appreciate sheets of nori, but the extent will be tank size dependant. If the tank is big enough, they're likely able to forage around for quite some time. And you can provide nori intermittently. As you are researching fish, just avoid those that are finicky eaters. 

The duration of how long a tank can be left alone involves too many variables to predict. The biggest issue is top off water, feeding, and monitoring the overflow (assuming you have one). Then there's dosing or CaRx maintenance if that applies to you. However, all of those things can be set up in such a way that you could technically leave it indefinitely. The problems arise when...well....the problems arise. 

Something goes crazy with the overflow? That could mean trouble. Reactor has a problem? There's another ordeal. All in all, you will be the best person to determine how well your tank can cruise. You just have to recognize how often you do little adjustments or changes and then consider what it would be like if you weren't around to do them. No one should be tied down by their tank. 

It is a 4x2x2 tank. My stocking wishlist is:

5 blue/green chromis

5 dispar anthias

3 yellow tangs(biota) or (1 yellow tang, 1 kole tang, 1 foxface)

2 regular oscellaris clown fish(lowest priority)

1 pink streaked wrasse

1 neon goby 

I imagine that chromis and dispar kind of increases the regular maintenance requirements. With the frequent feeding requirement, the filter sock clean up frequency can increase drastically.