Trident / Apex Controller / Apex DOS dosers ??

[Webbed Feet]

Hi,

I am hoping to hear from some long time Apex/Trident users.   How has your Trident performed for you and how has the longevity of the unit worked out for you?

Also, I have read some pretty darn harsh reviews from a number of unhappy Apex doser pump users.  How has your experience been, how long have you been using them, would you purchase them again?

Edited November 24, 2020 by Webbed Feet
reword

[SuncrestReef]

I've been an Apex user since early 2018, and a Trident owner since the initial launch day.  I've had great success with my entire Apex setup, including the Trident.

If you're not aware, I'm the resident Apex guru and published many articles on Apex programming and usage:  https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/authors/suncrestreef.93940/

I also have a detailed write-up of my Trident experience including Trident Controlled Dosing:  https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/trident-hands-on.596716/

In my opinion, most of the negative reviews are due to user error or misunderstanding how to properly configure the modules.  That's the main reason I wrote all the tutorials.

I have one DOS running auto water changes daily, and another DOS supplying 2-part controlled by the Trident.  Both have worked well.  I did replace the stock tubing connectors with John Guest push-connect fittings which eliminated the occasional problem of air in the tubing:

 

[Blue Z Reef]

I’ve had my apex for about a year now. My two main complaints are:

 

1. Salinity Probe - these are a joke and mine only lasted a year before being unable to calibrate. At $125 per probe...I am no longer using that functionality. I have an ancient pinpoint salinity meter/probe that still works perfect and is right on the money in the calibration fluid. I attempted to buy a used salinity probe from another member and had the same issue. Seems that very few manage to get them and keep them running long term. I’m hopeful they come out with a more reliable probe in the future but honestly wouldn’t push having one.

 

2. DOS is loud. Works great overall but is a noisy thing for sure. If you want auto water change, you probably don’t want it in the same room as your tank (mine is mounted in the garage). For 2 part dosing, it runs such short times it’s not really a big deal. Otherwise the setup/calibration is easy and I haven’t had any other issues. I did purchase those fittings Sumcrestreef mentioned but could never get them to seal up properly so I’m just using the standard fittings.

 

Overall, would 100% buy again. Trident makes the whole thing super amazing. It’s a big cost overall but I haven’t had my prior tanks in such a “cruise control” stage for this long with such little effort.

[SuncrestReef]

2 minutes ago, Blue Z Reef said:

I’ve had my apex for about a year now. My two main complaints are:

1. Salinity Probe - these are a joke and mine only lasted a year before being unable to calibrate. At $125 per probe...I am no longer using that functionality. I have an ancient pinpoint salinity meter/probe that still works perfect and is right on the money in the calibration fluid. I attempted to buy a used salinity probe from another member and had the same issue. Seems that very few manage to get them and keep them running long term. I’m hopeful they come out with a more reliable probe in the future but honestly wouldn’t push having one.

The most common cause of salinity probe problems is air bubbles trapped inside the tube.  I've had great success with my salinity probe by mounting it upside down so air bubbles just float up and out of the tube without being trapped.  I also calibrate the probe upside down by placing the calibration solution and probe tip inside a probe storage bottle, then inverting it:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-ph-orp-probe-tip-soaker-bottle.html

5 minutes ago, Blue Z Reef said:

2. DOS is loud. Works great overall but is a noisy thing for sure. If you want auto water change, you probably don’t want it in the same room as your tank (mine is mounted in the garage). For 2 part dosing, it runs such short times it’s not really a big deal. Otherwise the setup/calibration is easy and I haven’t had any other issues. I did purchase those fittings Sumcrestreef mentioned but could never get them to seal up properly so I’m just using the standard fittings.

When using the John Guest fittings, did you cut off the tip of the DOS fitting conical section?  If not, it obstructs the push-connect fitting from sealing properly.  I just use a razor knife to slice off the gray conical tip, then thread the John Guest fitting firmly into place.  I've had zero problems with a tight seal.

[Blue Z Reef]

1 hour ago, SuncrestReef said:

The most common cause of salinity probe problems is air bubbles trapped inside the tube.  I've had great success with my salinity probe by mounting it upside down so air bubbles just float up and out of the tube without being trapped.  I also calibrate the probe upside down by placing the calibration solution and probe tip inside a probe storage bottle, then inverting it:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-ph-orp-probe-tip-soaker-bottle.html

When using the John Guest fittings, did you cut off the tip of the DOS fitting conical section?  If not, it obstructs the push-connect fitting from sealing properly.  I just use a razor knife to slice off the gray conical tip, then thread the John Guest fitting firmly into place.  I've had zero problems with a tight seal.

Trust me on the salinity probe, I tried EVERYTHING! I did as you showed and bought the little probe storage container even. Went through like 6 packets of cal fluid trying to get it to work. When I would finally get things “calibrated” instead of reading 35ppt in solution it would read like 60 or something and along the same lines in the tank. I just can’t comprehend how these probes can be this touchy and problematic. As I said, my super old pinpoint meter with no recalibration ever has been spot on. When they come up with a better probe I will add it back but IMO wasn’t really doing anything significant for me In general and $125 Is pretty steep.

 

Thanks for the DOS tip though, I did not do that and explains why they never would seal. The seller I got them from and a bunch of tubing didn’t indicate any modification was needed.

[TheClark]

Trident has been great! 

You mentioned loud Jeff @Blue Z Reef?  I need to video reefbot.  It sounds like a rock tumbler.  Incredibly loud!  Like leave the room if you are on a work call loud!

Although I have no reefbot complaints other than that, I have much greater faith in the trident.

I haven't observed the alk drift some report on the trident.  In fact, I double check Trident using the reefbot with a different test kit now and then.

Trident is like the secret to reefing for me.  Testing alk 4x a day and adjusting the calcium reactor based on those results is-the-bomb!

I fear losing mine enough where I almost bought a second just to have a spare!

 

 

[obrien.david.j]

38 minutes ago, TheClark said:

Trident has been great! 

Trident is like the secret to reefing for me.  Testing alk 4x a day and adjusting the calcium reactor based on those results is-the-bomb!

I fear losing mine enough where I almost bought a second just to have a spare!

 

 

I second these comments.   Trident is a game changer for me.   In fairness, I COULD test chemicals at least once a day... And I acknowledge I DONT.   I just accept I don't fixate that much on it.

 

[Blue Z Reef]

5 hours ago, TheClark said:

Trident has been great! 

You mentioned loud Jeff @Blue Z Reef?  I need to video reefbot.  It sounds like a rock tumbler.  Incredibly loud!  Like leave the room if you are on a work call loud!

Although I have no reefbot complaints other than that, I have much greater faith in the trident.

I haven't observed the alk drift some report on the trident.  In fact, I double check Trident using the reefbot with a different test kit now and then.

Trident is like the secret to reefing for me.  Testing alk 4x a day and adjusting the calcium reactor based on those results is-the-bomb!

I fear losing mine enough where I almost bought a second just to have a spare!

 

 

Haha I suppose it’s all relative. My tank in general is pretty quiet by most standards. Also, when comparing it to other dosers like a DP4 or something that make basically no noise, it’s kind of startling how loud they are. I do accept it as it is going to be overall more accurate with the stepper motor than the little DC motors the cheaper dosers use, however, steppers are capable of running a lot quieter by varying the voltages (as you are probably familiar with).

 

Trident makes its weird little R2D2/Printer/Scanner noises. Not super loud but it is something you get use to. Honestly for what you get from the trident I would accept it being louder 🤣 I run 8x tests a day and love it!

[TheClark]

1 hour ago, Blue Z Reef said:

Haha I suppose it’s all relative. My tank in general is pretty quiet by most standards. Also, when comparing it to other dosers like a DP4 or something that make basically no noise, it’s kind of startling how loud they are. I do accept it as it is going to be overall more accurate with the stepper motor than the little DC motors the cheaper dosers use, however, steppers are capable of running a lot quieter by varying the voltages (as you are probably familiar with).

 

Trident makes its weird little R2D2/Printer/Scanner noises. Not super loud but it is something you get use to. Honestly for what you get from the trident I would accept it being louder 🤣 I run 8x tests a day and love it!

So awesome, I challenge any human to test 8 times a day, the robots will always win!  We don't do repetitive monotonous well!

 

[Webbed Feet]

This has all been very helpful information.   Would any of you view the Kamoer F4 PRO Wifi 4 Channel doser as an acceptable alternative to the Neptune DOS dosers given the noise they make?   

[TheClark]

1 minute ago, Webbed Feet said:

This has all been very helpful information.   Would any of you view the Kamoer F4 PRO Wifi 4 Channel doser as an acceptable alternative to the Neptune DOS dosers given the noise they make?   

I am a calcium reactor guy, but... One of the big values of an APEX controlled doser is the ability to control it depending on DOS results. 

So that is where DOS will be tough to beat IMO.

I suppose if ALK was high, you could power down the kamoer until alk drops.  That almost gets you there!

With a calcium reactor, I just disable the solenoid when Alk is too high, and it self corrects.

 

 

[Webbed Feet]

22 hours ago, SuncrestReef said:

I've been an Apex user since early 2018, and a Trident owner since the initial launch day.  I've had great success with my entire Apex setup, including the Trident.

If you're not aware, I'm the resident Apex guru............... (post shortened)

Would you consider giving up, or not starting with, salinity monitoring, ORP monitoring, and variable speed ports?   These would be the things not included with ApexEL.    I'd appreciate hearing from everyone if these things are easily lived without, or if it is shortsighted to forego them with a high likelihood of later paying more buying modules to get these features? 

 

 

 

[The ReefBox]

I use a GHL standalone 2.1 and love it.  Works great 

[Blue Z Reef]

I think you would be feeling pretty great if you had:

 

Apex EL

DOS

Trident

 

pretty much cruise control setup there. ORP isn’t really used for anything unless you run ozone. My experience was bad with salinity probe, you’d have to make the judgement if that really gives you any significant feedback or not. IMO if my salinity was significantly off, I’d know but it hardly moves on 200+ gals of water. For the variable speed ports, again, if you had something to use them with maybe it would be worth it, but remember that all these things can be added at a later date if you really wanted to, you aren’t “stuck” without the possibility.

[Blue Z Reef]

My point with the DOS was just that it’s loud enough to hear. If you are doing 2 per dosing it runs for like 2 seconds at a time so it’s not really that bothersome, just more of a surprise they didn’t make it quieter. I would 100% use the DOS so the apex can control it easily. That also allows for Trident automated dosing, which wouldn’t be possible without it.

[SuncrestReef]

20 minutes ago, Blue Z Reef said:

My point with the DOS was just that it’s loud enough to hear. If you are doing 2 per dosing it runs for like 2 seconds at a time so it’s not really that bothersome, just more of a surprise they didn’t make it quieter. I would 100% use the DOS so the apex can control it easily. That also allows for Trident automated dosing, which wouldn’t be possible without it.

 

1 hour ago, Webbed Feet said:

This has all been very helpful information.   Would any of you view the Kamoer F4 PRO Wifi 4 Channel doser as an acceptable alternative to the Neptune DOS dosers given the noise they make?   

I just recorded a video to show each of the DOS speeds so you can get an idea of the noise levels:

 

[shaywood]

I would like to locate a Trident in a neighboring closet. How far away can I locate the unit from the tank?

[SuncrestReef]

52 minutes ago, shaywood said:

I would like to locate a Trident in a neighboring closet. How far away can I locate the unit from the tank?

Unfortunately the Trident water sample tube is only 5 feet long and cannot be extended.  The length of the tube impacts testing results.