ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 First please excuse the mess that this post will become, i'm going bonkers trying to get this system up and running being its taken me a few months now and with my house being torn up and fish and coral here and there because of it, it has got completely out of hand and i now must finally ask for help, i mean i even have fish in a tank on the floor in my hallway! I haven't really lost any fish yet but this all started a few months back with a frag tank that broke and all my coral was shoved into a 40b that was being used as the sump w/o baffles. Fast forward to now, the coral i have left now fits on the bottom of a 29g. It took far longer then i expected to clear and prep the area the tank was going (Long boring story) Anyway, onto the tank... Tank 60 x 20 x 17 Sump 28 x 16 x16 1.5'' Bulkheads 1.5'' Pipe x2 1'' Returns Jebao DC-12000 return http:// http:// http:// http:// and before the old tank failed just for fun (From the GB live sale) http:// Here is a 9min video of some power failure tests and how it sits now, i've been on RC for many many months with this trying to learn the system and figure it out ahead of time, but now i think its time for some hands on help. I have everything needed to re-do the overflow box to fix the problems there but it's looking like my sump just is not large enough to accomadate the flow i'm trying to force though it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPnT51oZSnY&feature=youtu.be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Scott Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Your sump is likely fine, your return pump may not be able to keep up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Scott Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Where are you by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Like i mentioned, i have everything to re-do the overflow box i just want someone here that knows the system when i re-do it, bulkheads add up quick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Where are you by the way? Tigard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Mine doesn't "look" like the bean animal but it is basically the same, I would suggest not using the elbow for the siphon just a straight tube so you can raise the water level in the overflow then set the secondary at that height then the emergency. That would quiet it down so the water isn't falling so far. I'll look for a pic of mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Your sump is likely fine, your return pump may not be able to keep up. The DC-12000 has no problem running a 1.5'' drain The pump is set on 40% in the video and as it sits now, when i turn up the flow it will either empty the compartment the return pump is in too fast or if it is able to stabilize its the loudest sound you can possible image coming from an aquarium! Mainly because of the teeth and the current height of the drop in the box. The open channel sanitary tee needs to raised to raise the working water level in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Scott Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 All right I say we throw a kager at his place and maybe get his flow figured out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Scott Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 [emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 The three pipes in the center, someone pitched a fit once and said this isn't a bean animal because it doesnt look the same. The pipe on the left is the siphon, closed until the water level rises to the level to quiet the flow. The middle is the secondary set at that level, you can see the air line if the water level rises it will submerge and start the siphon, the pipe on the right is the emergency. Worked like a charm on the two occasions something got in the siphon, resets exactly to the level every time it's shut down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Thanks Smann, it makes sense, though i can't remember off hand exactly why the elbow on the siphon was needed, i have to go back to RC on that, they were just explaining why it was needed a couple days ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 IMO your pipes are to low, I didn't glue any of mine into the bulkheads until I had it all set. my pipes are 1 1/4" , 1 1/2 is pretty big for a tank that size, also I don't have any teeth on the overflow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I'm in West Linn if you want to come by and look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) IMO your pipes are to low, I didn't glue any of mine into the bulkheads until I had it all set. my pipes are 1 1/4" , 1 1/2 is pretty big for a tank that size, also I don't have any teeth on the overflow I was just told after i was done that with a external box it was not necessary to glue the fittings into the bulkheads, that just a snug fit will do but have also been told that the smallest pin hole of an air leak can and will interfere with the sipion. This is one of the major problems that i'm running into over at RC, everybody has a different opinion on this system it seems. As much as i try to dry fit everything prior to welding it, i can't dry fit it to their stopping points so exact measurements are tougher. some say its not rocket science and while i agree some things do indeed need to be exact for this system to work correct. Perfect example is how deep the drains terminate in the sump, i had mine an inch too long and after cutting them so they terminate just 1'' below the waterline it is running somewhat stable, its not correct, but stable. It was a nightmare to try and figure out where to cut them when i couldn't get the system running long enough to get a accurate running water level. I'm in West Linn if you want to come by and look at it. Thank you for the offer! I may need to see other system running correctly being i don't know when i have it right with this system. edit: and yes these teeth are something i wish now were never cut into this tank when built. Edited March 8, 2015 by ChrisQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanareef Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 The water level should be in the middle of the elbow all the way across and is set by the main "drain" with a ball valve, so you will need to move those elbows up some. The emergency one I have facing up and it's about 1 - 1 1/2" above the water line but below the top of the overflow box Water level about the middle of the "t" emergency drain Just need the one valve for the main one (without the air tube) Sry Steve, but your's does not look like the one pictured (from bean's site) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanareef Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 It's a preference for the teeth, helps to keeps things in where you want them. Chris, my water level is about 1" below the "teeth" on the inside of the box and again the valve is the key to adjusting the water level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Thanks Charles, The open channel and siphon are at the same level and yes, the water stabilizes out in the center of each elbow. I'm being told the open channel is taking too much flow. Also that i should raise the open channel an inch or so to raise the water level in the box to cut down on the noise created by the long drop. My plan is to re-do the overflow box (All in ABS) in the following manner, please advise if this is correct The ABS is so it doesn't stand out as much in the box as opposed to white pvc (Looking at the front of tank and sump) siphon in the left of the box (All the way to the bottom of the box) E-pipe in the center (Just a straight ABS) open channel in the right of the box (This time raised up a bit) If you watch the video around the 6min mark the sump is almost overflowed a couple of times trying to purge the air from the siphon. This is my reasoning on the placement of the drains into the particular sump chambers, the was it is now, both the open channel and siphon drain into a somewhat small chamber in the rear of the sump. My plan is to move the open channel to the far right chamber in the sump so only the siphon is draining into the back chamber along with the emergency when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 It's a preference for the teeth, helps to keeps things in where you want them. Chris, my water level is about 1" below the "teeth" on the inside of the box and again the valve is the key to adjusting the water level Yes, i need the teeth being i have working fish that really want to go home and stay home thanks for confirming the height in the box, this was one of the main questions that needed answering before i started cutting things apart again. Its gonna be a long night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (Sry Steve, but your's does not look like the one pictured (from bean's site) No it doesn't for a couple of reasons, his is only about 3" deep with the pipes out the back and the overflow inside the tank. Mine is on a overflow 12" deep, on the back of the tank and the pipes out the bottom but it functions exactly the same. Chris, you just need to raise the open channel up to the water level that you want, unfortunately like the bean animal design the pipe will be sticking up higher than the tank and be visible from the front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 No it doesn't for a couple of reasons, his is only about 3" deep with the pipes out the back and the overflow inside the tank. Mine is on a overflow 12" deep, on the back of the tank and the pipes out the bottom but it functions exactly the same. Chris, you just need to raise the open channel up to the water level that you want, unfortunately like the bean animal design the pipe will be sticking up higher than the tank and be visible from the front Thanks Steve, yeah, i was just in there looking at that and was just thinking about how much that pipe sticking up higher will annoy me I'm sure i'll get over it real quick as long as i can get this running right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 What I have seen looking at "Bean Overflows", is someone's attempt at incorporating the principles of the Carlson surge device with the same basic overflows we were building 30 years ago. Nothing new here. Basic principles of aquarium physics: always allow your overflow rate to exceed the rate of return to your tank. This flow rate should regulated your overflow, provided there is no restriction. What I see here is an exercise in futility. When you start restricting the flow of a gravity feed, then attempt to match it with regulating your return, you are going to have trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Thanks Steve, yeah, i was just in there looking at that and was just thinking about how much that pipe sticking up higher will annoy me I'm sure i'll get over it real quick as long as i can get this running right. You can cut the fittings, this is a 24" tank I built when designing my current tank. You can see the T is cut off, also the cap is cut which brought it down below the top of the tank. This is also a siphon on the right and a open channel without a 3rd emergency 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If the whole purpose is to reduce noise, you are best having open, or t least ventilated stand pipes on your overflow, and the overflow return opening below the water level in the sump to reduce or eliminated any splashing. Sometimes the simplest way can be the best. I watched a YouTube video where the guy was going to add an electronic shutoff valve to his bean overflow. That is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Why do you want siphons? I'm just trying to understand why is all. Not trying to start a debate. With my simplified system, my skimmer makes way more noise than my tank. Edited March 8, 2015 by JManrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisQ Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Why do you want siphons? I'm just trying to understand why is all. Not trying to start a debate. With my simplified system, my skimmer makes way more noise than my tank. I'm not sure if this will help be he posted this today, it also will explain more on the style of drain system Steve is running. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23568335&postcount=8073 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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