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Should people have to pass a class to have offspring?


reefgeek84
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We have to keep in mind that this would be in an ideal world so to speak...

 

We have to take a test to pass high school, college, to drive, to own a concealed weapons permit and the major one I want to talk about adopting a child. We require people who want to adopt a child to go through and pass a class to do so and to make a certain amount of money and provide a certain home enviroment.

 

Should we require the same thing for people who want to bear children? I say yes! If you can not support yourself, do drugs, do not have a job with no intention of really trying to provide for a child, a place to live, a history of major violence, etc. then you should not be able to bring another human into this world. I also think you should have to pass a course regarding the care and upbringing of a child.

 

I understand, it would be very hard to force people to take this test since all you have to do is have sex and you have a child and not to mention in a sense it is a natural right to bear children. But I think that alot of people do this soceity alot harm by bringing children into this world with such a major handicap, as having parents who do drugs, beat them, do not work and have no intention of working and then putting a child into the world with no sort of help to become a productive member of society.

 

Am I alone here? I would love to hear people's thoughts.

 

I know this would be impossible, but I am just asking the question.

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I don't know that I would agree with you... I can understand what you're trying to say but there seem to be equally as many unproductive people who come from parents who would fit your requirements. I have a few friends who came from what you might consider unfit homes/parent(s) and they are very productive members of society. I don't know that it would be fair to anyone to group people like that. Just my opinion. :D

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I totally get what you're saying. I've often wondered the same thing. Course, I've often wondered why we don't have a cap on how many children people have.

 

You might find this amusing. If we were to go to a society that "qualifies" to have children... such as you would be unable to reproduce if you have serious defects. My mother was scizophrenic and was mildly developmentally disabled as well. My dad was certainly in the remedial classes when he was a young pup. Now, unless I was switched with another baby at the hospital I turned out remarkably okay. Even on the somewhat intelligent side, despite the genetic odds I was up against. laugh

 

Just thought that would be interesting to share. Plus it probably paints me in a different light for you all. Yes, I see you all shaking your heads and going "Oh, now I get it!" :D

 

Stacy

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I dunno about the whole debate...Really I think there should be a cap on how many kids you can have.....hence the population increase. I also beleive that if you cannot afford to raise the child you have (going on welfare because you are to lazy to get a job types), then you shouldn't be able to have them.

 

This would be why Keith and I don't have kids. I know I can't financially be responsible for myself, Keith and a child. When that happens (or I think we can swing it) You might see a little Orriss running around. But I'm somewhat responsible....sometimes.

 

Oh and this has to do with quality of life...I grew up with a single mom that didn't have a job for awhile. She didn't go on welfare while looking for a job, she was on unemployment. I can speak from experience, it's hard on the kid to go through this as well as the mom. I don't want to put my children through that and I don't want the stress. She is an amazing woman and I'm surprised we made it.

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I personanly don't think we should say that people can only have a certain amount of kids. The only time that I'm for restricting people from have more kids is in the case of a woman having a drug addicted child or a woman that kills her kids. At that point they should be fixed like you would do to your cat or dog...

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If this was to be the case then YES. But we know nothing tlike that would every happen' date=' rihgt...........[/quote']

I know it would never happen, but I am just curious to see people's thoughts on it. I know if I did not put that I would get posts, that were telling me it would never happen, we do not live in that kind of world, etc. :)

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I totally get what you're saying. I've often wondered the same thing. Course, I've often wondered why we don't have a cap on how many children people have.

 

You might find this amusing. If we were to go to a society that "qualifies" to have children... such as you would be unable to reproduce if you have serious defects. My mother was scizophrenic and was mildly developmentally disabled as well. My dad was certainly in the remedial classes when he was a young pup. Now, unless I was switched with another baby at the hospital I turned out remarkably okay. Even on the somewhat intelligent side, despite the genetic odds I was up against. laugh

 

Just thought that would be interesting to share. Plus it probably paints me in a different light for you all. Yes, I see you all shaking your heads and going "Oh, now I get it!" :D

 

Stacy

I totally agree with the cap, they are doing it in China and it is working out very well!!!

 

See I think there are some people out there, by society's standards have some issues (like your parents) but are fit to have children. Your parents are a prime example. And that is amazing and I wish we had more people that have their determanation to do things in life and get them done, no matter what life has given them.

 

(this is not for you spayne I am just writing instead of making another post)And there is always an exception to the rule in everycase, so yeah there are children that have come out of a very bad home and gone on to do amazing things...there are also people that have shot 12 nails into their head and lived, I mean anything is possible, so when I asked the question I am thinking of the norm and not the weird freak chances.

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I dunno about the whole debate...Really I think there should be a cap on how many kids you can have.....hence the population increase. I also beleive that if you cannot afford to raise the child you have (going on welfare because you are to lazy to get a job types), then you shouldn't be able to have them.

 

This would be why Keith and I don't have kids. I know I can't financially be responsible for myself, Keith and a child. When that happens (or I think we can swing it) You might see a little Orriss running around. But I'm somewhat responsible....sometimes.

 

Oh and this has to do with quality of life...I grew up with a single mom that didn't have a job for awhile. She didn't go on welfare while looking for a job, she was on unemployment. I can speak from experience, it's hard on the kid to go through this as well as the mom. I don't want to put my children through that and I don't want the stress. She is an amazing woman and I'm surprised we made it.

This is wonderful!!!! Someone who realizes kids are not all banana pancakes and dancing with toothbrushes ;) If you do not think you can afford them, then do not have them. And your mother is what I am talking about she was not lazy, she was a single mother that was finding it hard to get a job, but she did and raised and took care of you, these parents should have children...Sure it might be hard, but hey that is life!!!!!!!!!!!

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I think its a real fine line. Setting a cap is a good idea IMO but at the same time that cap would be a blow to our freedoms. I mean freedom of speech is already gone in a lot of cases. I am against anything that infringes upon our freedoms.

 

That said, every day I talk to ppl at work who are credit bandits and do everything and anything to milk the system. Usually children are what they use to get their money, whether its child support, welfare, or other government assistance. Eveyday i receive applications on ppl buying cars that take advantage of the system that is in place to help out in times of need, to help you care for your family and kids. And all of them, honestly 90% or more of them, have 10k in back child support or more and haven't paid it in years. But here they are with $2000 cash to buy a Kia. Imagine how much that 2k could help the kid out with clothes, books, medicine, etc. Stuff that typically the person caring for the kid can't afford. Or how about when someone has income from being a foster parent. That should be a commendable position. But they get paid 8-10k a month, have the worst credit in the world, and complain that everyone is screwing them.

 

I guess what i'm getting at is that someone will always take advantage of a system to get what they want out of it. Its sad that kids usually come second to what the parent/guardian wants. People actually have kids for the sole advantage of getting more welfare. And that is wrong. Before anything changes, ppls views and attitudes must change for the better. Requiring classes before having kids might help.

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I think that alot of people, have this idea that kids are alot of fun. And that they do not really require the work that they actaully do. I also think that the "american life" reqiures a child in thier life. In most cases if someone says, they do not want children people question it and think there is something wrong with it. On top of all of this, I think the biology of humans also makes us want them and not think everything through. All these reasons I think make alot of people, think they want kids, then once they have them they can not afford that child or do not want to take care of it. This is where I think classes might help...If the classes showed how much work and money children do cost.

 

As for the welfare thing, you are correct...people will have more kids to get more money. Thats why I think that if someone has more then one kid is on welfare and has not had a job for more then a year, they should not be able to get on welfare.

 

Will this harm some children? yes, do I think the would be less problems in the future. Maybe this would kick some lazy [language filter] people in the pants to get a job and work. Or they will go, well I do not want to take care of a kid and if I do not get money for them no point in having them.

 

This is also a reason I am for planned parent hood, the more birth control we can get out the people the better.

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You opened a big bag of worms with this question...

 

For starters, my wife (spayne) and I, have chosen to be child-free. I even risked life and limb to go through the little 15 minute procedure ( mine lasted 1.5 hours (scary) , but that is another story ).

 

I think we need a better pro-active approach. Maybe set up a NPO that teaches prospective parents "the ropes". Maybe some free counselling for the first 3 years of a babies development.

 

As for "caps", "applications", and the like... We need a better system. People on welfare should not be "rewarded" for having more children. I think the cap should be on the amount of public assistance you can receive. Also I think we should have a hand-up system, instead of the hand-out system. The tax credits are crazy. I have a friend with 3 kids that gets back $7000.00 a year in taxes. I pay at the end of the year solely because I have chosen not to have children. Now that I own my home it is getting better, but I am a far cry from thousands of dollars in returns. Why am I being punished???

 

I am not against children. I have just chosen not to have any. I have the upmost respect for parents. Their job is the hardest. It just pains me to see a person teaching their child how to use the Oregon Trail card telling their son/daughter that they are going to need to know how to use it. I see it all the time working in grocery. Education is the key.

 

Jay

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Jay is so smart... I guess that's why I married him!

 

I was thinking about the cap on the amount of kids you can have. Then you might be running into the issue of the third kid would have found the cure for cancer scenario. I think Jay has a good idea with a cap of how many kids the government will pay for via public assistance. It would also be nice if kids went through some fairly intensive training in school about the realities of having kids. Course, those dolls they have to pack around with the computer chips are pretty interesting! Back in our day we had an egg to pack around for a week. FYI, when school wasn't in session, I kept mine in the fridge. laugh

 

Jeez, Mike! $806 a month for child support! That's just insane!

 

That's just my three cents on the issue. I figure I gave more than two cents worth of opinion! It's a subject near and dear to my heart.

 

Stacy

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(cussing) [language filter] Welfare, Oregon Trail crap! (censored) I saw a lady go in to Safeway just yesterday and use her Oregon Trail card and then walk out and get into a 2006 Chevy Suburban. Ouch a Suburban is $35,000+. Thats great that people like that are able to get into cars like that. (SARCASM) Later Ryan

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I've seen the same thing...Family on welfare with 6 kids. They had all the new toys and stuff. Things like new big TV, nice stereo, console games, dvd (before dvd was affordable really).

 

The sad thing...they lived in a horrible run down house, didn't clean and their kids were running around in hand-me-downs and taking gifts of clothes from other peope.....messed up priorities!

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Jay, did the doctor sneeze and that's why it took 1.5 hours for your 15 minute procedure?

 

 

In the not too distant past I was a single parent, and had to resort to the system for a few things. It was nice that it was there for me, but mostly for my son. I have no problem with people who REALLY need it, to use it, what gets my goat is these folks who are on welfare, drive expensive cars, and then have 4 or 5 kids so they don't have to work. Then they sell the [language filter] card for cigs, or drugs, or what ever. They can identify the abusers of the system quite easily, but choose not to. i could rant on this subject all day, but will leave it at this.

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I knew I was in trouble when my doctor said "I think I need to get the scalpel" (booboo)

 

Before I knew what was happening, he gave me about 4 shots and when to work. It took three weeks of recovery.

 

The system needs to be there for people when they need it. I went on unemployment once and it was nice to know it was there. I was beating the streets looking for a job, but there were a lot of people just going through the motions. We ( Ray's FoodPlace ) just placed an ad at the employment office for a checking position and didn't get a response for over a week.

 

While we are on the subject of state or federal assistance abuse, chew on this thought, since it is something I see every day. What would you think about random drug testing for anyone on assistance? I see tweakers come into my store all the time with $400.00 on their Trail cards. They buy candy and munchies with the card and pull out a wad of cash for their beer and energy drinks. Could save taxpayers millions. Just a thought...

 

Jay

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Jay I know I opened a giant bag of worms, that was the plan. I like to see people's thoughts on certain things... I learn from people and their views, so I figured we can all learn from eachother, plus I figured it would get people talking and it has :) who knows maybe I will ask another question of the sort.

 

Jay I agree with you on the things you said, about the tax issue and that hand me up thoery.

 

Also I really think a test could be taken before you have a child and some sort of reward if that test is taken and passed or at least the classes.

 

Do not get me started on the Oregon trail card...Yes for a little bit of time it is fine, but after a certain amount of time then it should be cut off. Unless someone can really prove they need the card (for example: They are working two jobs and just really can not survive.)

 

This thread is wonderful, thanks for everyone taking the time to chime in.

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While we are on the subject of state or federal assistance abuse, chew on this thought, since it is something I see every day. What would you think about random drug testing for anyone on assistance? I see tweakers come into my store all the time with $400.00 on their Trail cards. They buy candy and munchies with the card and pull out a wad of cash for their beer and energy drinks. Could save taxpayers millions. Just a thought...

 

Jay

 

Great idea! It would pay for itself just by weeding out the druggies abusing the system.

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