FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I have a mag 7 at atm. its having issues pumping water up. my question is what is the max pump I can get? 76g 3/4" drain 1/2" return I have about 8-9 ft of piping on the return I was thinking about the mag 12? Is there a point when you go to big and the drain won't be able to keep up? I plan on upgrading my cheap octo skimmer after I get a new pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwenReefin Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 There is a point, it matters how you have your overflow set up too. http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 There is a point' date=' it matters how you have your overflow set up too. [url']http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php[/url] Thanks but I'm trying to figure out what pump to get with the length of my return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPaquatics Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Same site different calculator. http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator Was the pump working and now its not? Prob needs cleaned. If not, how much does it not work? If it barely not works, go with mag 9. If it doesnt work much as all, mag 12. Thats a small drain, little room for fluctuations. You dont need too much flow for your sump, gives your skimmer, heater, reactors etc time to do their job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frlejo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 if you get a pressure rated pump, (1 you can turn down), you can adjust your return to match your overflow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 The pump is working but I'm getting alot of air and it has a bad rattle but it was cleaned out. There was nothing in it. It also fluctuates on the flow. It goes fast then it goes slow. On a pressure rated pump are they submersible? Do they have ones that are for my size setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPaquatics Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 You sure its not too fast and the overflow is surging? Almost like a toilet flush...then releases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frlejo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 as far as i know, the pressure rated are external, blue line has 1 that should work. you can always use your new pump to run your skimmer, as long as you get one big enuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 You sure its not too fast and the overflow is surging? Almost like a toilet flush...then releases no I'm positive its not that. with the piping as long as it is. my pump is only pushing out about 300 gph. which from what i've been reading i need at the least 760 gph for my tank. btw my heater is pretty much obsolete because for some reason the temp stays about 80 degrees. my heater is set at 78 lol is it possible that I drill bigger bulkhead holes in my overflow (which is built in) would that help or is that just a waste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate213 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 no I'm positive its not that. with the piping as long as it is. my pump is only pushing out about 300 gph. which from what i've been reading i need at the least 760 gph for my tank. Using the drain calculator posted above you would need a 1.14 minimum drain size for 760 gph. I believe the common recommended sump flow is 3-5 times tank volume. At 760 you would be over 10 times. It is good to have 10x flow but that is total flow including powerheads, not just sump return. It sounds like you are starving the pump and the drain line is undersized. Since there is very little to no pressure on the drain, the volume of water that can be handled is much less than your return is capable of. Also using the calculator previously posted the recommended minimum drain size for 300 gph is slightly under 3/4". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Using the drain calculator posted above you would need a 1.14 minimum drain size for 760 gph. I believe the common recommended sump flow is 3-5 times tank volume. At 760 you would be over 10 times. It is good to have 10x flow but that is total flow including powerheads, not just sump return. It sounds like you are starving the pump and the drain line is undersized. Since there is very little to no pressure on the drain, the volume of water that can be handled is much less than your return is capable of. Also using the calculator previously posted the recommended minimum drain size for 300 gph is slightly under 3/4". I see you have a 75g tank. what pump are you running? would a mag 9 pump be to much then? I take it I need to get a few powerheads to help with the flow instead of trying to max out my pump? what is scwd? nm googled it. how did you plumb this? in ur overflow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate213 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I see you have a 75g tank. what pump are you running? would a mag 9 pump be to much then? I take it I need to get a few powerheads to help with the flow instead of trying to max out my pump? what is scwd? I have a Quiet One 4000 which is very comparable to the Mag 7. The Mag 9 would work, but your drain line would be undersized unless you throttled back the pump by diverting the flow or installing a valve. If I were you I'd keep the 7 and figure out why it is surging (partially plugged return, undersized drain, or some other issue). Try restricting the return flow some and see if the problem changes. Pictures of your overflow, drain line and return would be helpful. A SCWD (aka squid) is a switching current water director made by 3IQ Ventures. It alternates flow in a teed off return line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frlejo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I see you have a 75g tank. what pump are you running? would a mag 9 pump be to much then? I take it I need to get a few powerheads to help with the flow instead of trying to max out my pump? what is scwd? nm googled it. how did you plumb this? in ur overflow? i have a 3\4" swcd for $25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Pictures of your overflow, drain line and return would be helpful. i have a 3\4" swcd for $25 How old is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frlejo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 2 years, not used much, went with a seaswirl, sitting for almost 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergebmw3 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 If the blur line tape I's where ur water label I's at there I's ur problem if the pump isn't submerged at least 7" under water it will cut out on u cause it creates a syphon effect with it being so close to the water surface. Don't get a new pump just restrict the flow on the return and see what that does. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.730186,-122.635560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 If the blur line tape I's where ur water label I's at there I's ur problem if the pump isn't submerged at least 7" under water it will cut out on u cause it creates a syphon effect with it being so close to the water surface. Don't get a new pump just restrict the flow on the return and see what that does. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.730186,-122.635560 http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.730186,-122.635560 So increase the water level in the return? Is that what your saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate213 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Yes serge is correct. You need adequate water depth in the return chamber or the pump will suck air and not pump until the chamber fills back up. Try closing the return ball valve about 30% closed. That will slow the flow through the system. See if it helps the sump fill faster. If it does, then your pump is oversized for your drain line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergebmw3 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 sorry first Q should be how much water in the pump submerged under? if its not much i would suggest increase the hight of water in the area where the pump is at. 1) add more salt water to the system or 2) turn down the return amount to the DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bicyclebill Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 What Sergebmw3 said. Your water level appears too low. You may have 9' of piping, you have likely 5' of head at the most. I'm pretty confident your Mag 7 is pumping more water than your 3/4" drain can handle (a 1" drain would be about right for that pump). Raise the water level a bit, throw a throtting valve on the discharge of the pump, and you'll likely be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Ok I increased the water level by 3 inches. now about the bubbles. I noticed alot of bubbles in the filter attached to the return pump. Ive read that this will go away after time. (the filter is new) would this be the cause of the surges? my sump was flowing fine the whole time but I just didnt feel that is was flowing fast enough. also since I have you guys, I have a micro filter attached to the drain. when I take it off my tank instantly gets cloudy. Is there a way around this. I dont want to be using a filter there forever. also my skimmer is set at its max and still has yet to produce any skim. is this the result of the drain filter? update: I've noticed alot of bubbles around the piping in the overflow for the return. could that be a cause too? or is that nothing to worry about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergebmw3 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 ok so iam sitting here and thinking in class scratch!! scratch!!! are you saying you have 9 feet of pipe before it hits the Tank what is the hight that its pushing it to ? here is what i found online for you Head Height (in feet) Gallons per Hour 0' 640 1' 530 3' 460 5' 390 7' 290 10' 90 11.65' shutoff A 1" bulk head is able to push out 600 gallons an hour of drain and 1/3 of that in a 3/4" thats 200 gph on that 3/4" bulkhead.... --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.730408,-122.635707 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergebmw3 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Ok I increased the water level by 3 inches. now about the bubbles. I noticed alot of bubbles in the filter attached to the return pump. Ive read that this will go away after time. (the filter is new) would this be the cause of the surges? my sump was flowing fine the whole time but I just didnt feel that is was flowing fast enough. also since I have you guys, I have a micro filter attached to the drain. when I take it off my tank instantly gets cloudy. Is there a way around this. I dont want to be using a filter there forever. also my skimmer is set at its max and still has yet to produce any skim. is this the result of the drain filter? update: I've noticed alot of bubbles around the piping in the overflow for the return. could that be a cause too? or is that nothing to worry about? We are here to help you as much as we know how! as for the filter SOCK YOU WANT TO KEEP IT THERE trust me it will save you so much head aches and problems. it will trap dirt and other things that will help with the water clarity. if you are having micro bubbles it might be because your water level where the sock is is low? if the water drips or hits the water level in the sump its creating bubbles 2) it might be your skimmer bubbles coming out 3) or something else its really hard to tell sometimes. here is a crazy thought!!!!!!!! because you turned down the return its putting a lot of pressure on the ball valve and its creating bubles because then you are forcing water in a v shaped direction it will automatically start bubbling up cause of salt content and pressure. see if it clears up if not i would get a 1" drain. Best of Luck iam just Rambling on!!!! blah blah blah just thinking --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.730194,-122.635429 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatChevy Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 5 to 6 ft in height. But not straight up. There's about 3ft in the sump area. Another 3 from the sump to the bulkhead and then about 3ft of pipe in the overflow serge: I didnt turn the return down yet. like I said everything is flowing fine but these bubbles are killing me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergebmw3 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 o ok you know what you can you is PUT some micro foam or pad between the baffles in the way to the Return section will help a lot. or you can put a Foam ( like) cone on the intake of the pump if possible. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.729861,-122.635248 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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