reefnjunkie Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 let me apologize to those who may read this and say "no **** reefnjunkie" "that goes without saying" This is not a bash against any brand, shop etc its an "in general" thread about LED's For those that have seen all the post as of recent ( as there have been a grip of them) and have been trying to determine if LED's are the new replacement to your current lights (whatever they may be).....or just like the idea of less watts for a product that is equal to the power hungry MH (the later was/is my motivation) You need to consider a lot of varibles-to many for me to list and I am sure there are many I have not even thought of. So I will just say be cautious, do your homework and above all, if you can see one set up check it out-even if you need to drive an hour or 2 I have recently borrowed a fixture from a local reefer and put it to the par meter test. I will say my tank is 6 feet wide and the fixture I tested is roughly 16 x 9. The fixture had great readings directly below the fixture, comparable to my MH (in the 500's) but as I moved 4+ inches either side it greatly reduced-into the high 100's, if I got a 12" away it was in the low 100-50's+ This is not meant to be a bash on this unit, it is what it is, and if I wanted to use this particular fixture I would need about 3 maybe 4 to cover my 6 foot wide tank-Granted I am an SPS guy and my tank is SPS. If I had softies and LPS it would most likely be fine other than the spot light look-again it was reading near 500 below and 1 foot to the side it was in the low 100 range I have spent months looking at LED's set ups and read countless threads and talked to many reefers using them and many others "wanting" to use them I have built 2 DIY units myself- 1-60 bulb w/3 watt crees on a heatsink thats 24"x8" and a 24 bulb 3 watt cree fixture on a heatsink 12"x8". I dont know the exact point to this thread other than to warn people to not get caught up in the hype and make sure they really check out 1st hand what you are buying, I have seen many brands, and many builds and they are all different. Not everyone has access to a par meter but if you did and you checked out the readings of a MH and its footprint and compared that to the levels of a LED fixture and its footprint-you MAY be not as impressed with what you find. I guess it just depends on what you grow, what's your footprint, what "look" are you after and thats just to name a few..... Good luck everyone- My reasoning for wanting to believe in the LEDs is my new tank that is 72x48x27. I figured 6-250 MH (or 3-400 watters and 2-250's) not counting T5 actinics, the heat they generate that would make me use the 1hp chiller I bought that eats 1400 watts while it runs, plus the 1500 GPH pump that would be need to push water through the chiller, plus the returns and the list goes on. Thats alot of watts- Anyway point being, I was motivated to find an alternative (no T'5s are not it for me-thats another thread-DOH!) LEDs might still work but not any unit that I have found off the shelf that is less than 800.00-hense my DIY which still ran 625.00-granted that 24" 60 bulb fixture covers 3 feet of the tank and has decent par but x 4 units to build-(scary), well lets say like many others, those 300.00 ish dollar units that everyone has seen pop up sounded very good-They just are not for my tank and its corals which like I said is mainly SPS Good luck and be cautious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherguy30 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Lol, I went out and bought that very same fixture today! Granted I dont have a foot to the left, right, front and back since my cube is fairly small. I'd definitely like to see par readings on it! And I have a feeling I'm gonna be able to get away with this fixture and it's par. My main concern is how long this thing lasts! If I get a couple years I'm happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bicyclebill Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I agree Reefjunkie! Everybody keeps trying to push the latest and greatest without really putting it to the real test. I just upgraded to MH from VHO, and couldn't be happier. It's funny how what's being pushed 2 months ago is already considered junk and something new is the latest thing to have. It's almost like computers, except that metal halides continue to be the standard that all others are measured against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherguy30 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Well I'm happy to put it to the test:) especially if it last, cause I like saving money compared to my 250 watt de fixture and needing to run a chiller. Now time to sign back up for that par meter:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherguy30 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Brad, I'm thinking u need to try some plasma bulbs!! Now that's the latest and greatest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Thanks for the thread Brad. That's pretty much what I figured the light would do. That LED fixture actually sounds perfect for the frag tank as I wanted the side areas shaded some for the chalices and I'm mostly putting zoas in there. You sure you don't want to do T-5's THe Ati's give you great growth and par. Madmike and Danik both use the same fixture I have. Pictures would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohaynow Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 One thing I have always wondered about is the actual life of the bulb, I know they say in most cases 50k hours but how much of that is good solid light. I have read that t5's have a 60k hour life expectancy but should be replaced way befor that. I'm wondering if the same is true with led's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Ya know, I have been looking and trying ti find a LED that would actually work and do what it says and is meant for, which is save $ on elect and bulb replacement. I have yet to find one that dose either. I looked into the Al Sol, it would take 7 of them to light one of my frag tanks, thats $3800.00, and thats 525 watts. I could light it with 3- 250 watt MH, even if i bought them brand new total thats only $1200, and only 225 watts more, and if you factor in bulb replacement for 5 years thats another $1500, thats a total of only $2700 for using MH, thats a $1100, dif in price, and over the 5 years that $1100 wouldn't be eaten up by the 225 watts of elect savings. Cooling may be a dif story but honestly, the 10 days a year that we have temps over 92 isn't going to kill the tank to have the lights off, and it is amazing how well a couple well placed fans can cool a tank! If you go with the cheep $300ish ones you would prob still need 5 or 6 to light a 240 and get pretty even par throughout and at 120 watts a piece thats 600 to 720 watts, virtually the same as lighting with MH, cost and elect, you would just save on bulb replacement, but then you are stuck with the color it produces ( that goes with any LED fixture you buy). I for one am not sold on the whole LED fad yet!! When they come out with a fixture that will cover the same as a MH, and have replacement/interchangeable bulbs with several bulb color options, and tanks with proven success, not just a tank that they have taken the lighting off thrown on some LED's and said look how good my tank looks, until I have all those I won't be buying any LED's for myself or the store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate213 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Brad' date=' I'm thinking u need to try some plasma bulbs!! Now that's the latest and greatest![/quote'] The plasma technology looks very promising. I'm hoping it will take off soon. I would love to light my tank with two tic-tac sized bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Oh and one more thought I had on the issue, dosnt a watt = x amount of heat? so in the end dose LED actualy save on the heat? If the led's ran as cool as they say then there wouldn't be a need for the heat sink and fans to cool them. Just a thought is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfisher Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Oh and one more thought I had on the issue' date=' dosnt a watt = x amount of heat? so in the end dose LED actualy save on the heat? If the led's ran as cool as they say then there wouldn't be a need for the heat sink and fans to cool them. Just a thought is all.[/quote'] They are physically ( running hand under fixture) much cooler than the MH set up I had. I have't tested heat from both fixtures, but it it much cooler. You can feel some warmth just at the light panel and can feel warmth at the case. No "hot to touch" or radiant heat like a MH though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 newfisher i would b interested in a par reading of ur fixture it looks like it would produce plenty of light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfisher Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If you can get a meter, come on by anytime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 The heat sink is for heat transfer as these suckers run so hot you cant hold one when its running, granted thats transfer, they radiate nearly zero heat. Again these units will work for lots of people but it wont for my set up and I just wanted folks to be cautious becuase buyer remorse sucks. Ed I can say the fixtures I have built really do rock and they are dimmable vis the APEX so you can literally ramp them up from 0-100% over what ever time frame you program-so its not the dawn to dusk look its actually "sunrise" and "sunset" so freaking cool you have to see it to appreciate it-The 60 bulb unit I built covers nearly 3 feetof the 6 foot tank and it replaced my 400 watt MH, but it also ran 625.00-another reason I wanted to point out IMO you are not going to find a 300.00 ish range off the shelf unit that will replace a 400MH, maybe a 250MH is some areas but it wont have the spread (par) that you will find in a MH with a good reflector. I was hoping the 300.00 dollar units were going to work but it looks like I am more than likely going to have to build 3 more IF I fing that the LEDs I built are going to be able do the job. In my research if you want an off the shelf unit that will kick some *** check out the Key Aquarium K3 units or the new Maxspect G3 units but at around 800.00 shipped well.......... http://www.fish-street.com/key_aquarium_led_lighting_us_version G3 have yet to be released here are the G2; http://www.aquashoponline.com/28-new-generation-maxspect-programmable-aquarium-led-lighting-g2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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