Cloudy Water

[steelhead77]

Wow! Ok. 2 clownfish a Yellow Tang (with ich!) a royal gramma and a clam, all in a tank with dead rock and no skimmer or filtration! The ich isn't gone BTW. So you know how bad you messed up. Enough about that.

 

If you really want to know how to fix this - and are serious about taking advice, then here goes: Get all your fish out of the tank tomorrow. Give them away if you have to. (make sure they know the Tang has ich) Same with the clam. Sell your corals (or give them away as well). The ich that your Tang has is still in your tank and on your Tang, you just can't see it. To fix that problem, you need to leave the tank fish-less for at least 6 weeks to get rid of it (this is the ONLY way) or you will always battle ich and it will be a neverending source of problems for you, not to mention your fish. It's best to do this now, while you are already having problems. Install your skimmer on Monday and then do not add ANYTHING (except fresh ro/di top-off water and maybe some LIVE rock from an established system) to your tank and let it mature for at least another 4 weeks. Then you can begin to add a clean up crew (snails and hermits). After another 4 weeks you can begin to SLOWLY add other livestock again.

 

No-one is trying to chap your hide here, we're only trying to help. You started off badly, now you need to fix it and the easiest way is to start fresh as noted above. The best advice for a reef tank is to go SLOWWWLY!!! You added too many things way too fast and are now dealing with the consequences.

 

Good Luck.

[grassi]

HAHA Alex posted twice :P

 

 

You got me!

[Rick]

Based on the parameters I think Alex (Grassi) nailed it. Sounds like calcium precipitation though it could also be an algae bloom. Calcium starts to precipate when the level approaches 600. The exact point will depend on the other parameters as they will effect the exact amount of calcium that the water will hold before it starts precipitating.

[steelhead77]

Based on the parameters I think Alex (Grassi) nailed it. Sounds like calcium precipitation though it could also be an algae bloom. Calcium starts to precipate when the level approaches 600. The exact point will depend on the other parameters as they will effect the exact amount of calcium that the water will hold before it starts precipitating.

 

What would cause it to precipitate? Unless he is supplementing pretty heavy, there is nothing but dead rock in his tank that would cause this, is there?

 

My vote is for an algae or bacterial bloom.

[Rick]

What would cause it to precipitate? Unless he is supplementing pretty heavy, there is nothing but dead rock in his tank that would cause this, is there?

 

My vote is for an algae or bacterial bloom.

 

The water can only hold so much calcium. The amount varies depending on alkalinity and magnesium. (I think PH also effects it) He stated on the first page that his calcium is up around 580. That is really high for calcium and it had to get this way somehow (New sand that wasn't rinsed, supplementing, or otherwise). At that level all it would take is a small shift in either magnesium or alkalinity to cause precipitation. (Spoken from personal experience as I had my calcium that high at one time and the tank was cloudy until it dropped to about 560) Being a new tank it will also take a long time for it to use up the calcium so any supplementing at all is probably going to just keep pushing the levels up.

 

I would need to go back and read the earlier threads on the clam to be sure however I think this person specifically mentioned that they were dosing to get the calcium level up in anticipation of the arrival of the clam.

[Rick]

Here are a couple of articles that discusses how the calcium is linked to the alkalinity and magnesium.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

 

This one specifically addresses the causes of precipitation.

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php

[MadReefer]

I think that you should add some macro to the display and maybe a piece of live rock and a cup of sand from an established tank. Don't worry about the ich other than making the environment as happy as it can be.

[MadReefer]

You might be doing too many water changes. With what you've said, I would suggest you stop water changes for a week or two.

Personally, I only do water changes every 3-6 months, unless something is testing off.

[Lowman]

Jeez, we almost sound like RC. It could be a bacterial bloom also. How much of the instant cycle stuff have you been adding? What test kit are you using for the DKH and Calcium? What do you dose? What buffer do you use for your DKH?

[Electrokate]

While I agree starting a tank with no filter or liverock is unacceptable and would never advocate buying anything alive before buying the life support system, what is done is done. You can't put his fish and coral in another person's tank without spreading the ich. I second the idea of adding real cycled liverock, instead. Bring the healthy tank to him.

 

Did you say how long the tank has been milky and if it occurred gradually or suddenly? If you have a sand bed, is anything stirring it up? How deep is it? Do you have a goal in mind as far as sand goes (Berlin method, DSB)? If you are going for deep you might want to buy some sand from someone with a healthy bed to get yours going.

 

You should own a canister or power filter such as an HOT magnum. They are handy and last forever. Then you could get at least some filtration going and run some carbon. The micron filter probably won't do anything but it's probably worth a shot. Depends what is clouding your water.

 

Do you have a quarantine tank? I actually quarantine everything now, even liverock. People are spreading zoanthid pox around Portland, red bugs are a pain, flatworms are everywhere, so coral need to be QT'd too. Unfortunately you don't have time to QT liverock or sand. Or you could take all your fish out and keep them in the QT tank til things stabilize, which would allow you to medicate the fish if they need it, and then you would not add food/phosphate to the reef tank.

 

I have read that distilled water is made with copper tubing, so could have residue. Anyone have facts on this or is it an internet rumor? I just avoid it, RO/DI costs the same.

 

Greenwater/phytoplankton start a bloom as a whitish grey haze, so be prepared to see that. Or your clam might filter it out if it is greenwater. I don't know what size or species of clam you got. Greenwater can alter ph if it's really thick to a scary degree.

 

You want to deal with that phosphate, or your test kit sucks. Only a couple kits are accurate, and they cost a lot so most people use the worthless API kit, which will probably accurately tell you when you have "some" phosphate but gives false negatives and is hard to read. You can do water changes and use a GFO medium for absorbing the excess phosphate. If you are feeding frozen food get a brine shrimp net and rinse it well before putting it in the tank, this really helped with my phosphate and algae problems.

 

Do you have any toddlers or drunks who may have slipped something into your tank? A friend of mine had his tank turn milky white. After 2 panic induced massive water changes he found the bologna-mayo-wonderbread sandwich his kid put in the sump behind the return pump. They also dump milk and juice all over the place.

You just never know.

 

Good luck, it gets better.

Kate

[Mitchell]

Ok I tested my calcium and it is at 560. I looked in my log book and Thursday when I last tested my calcium it was at 600 not 580 like I first said. I have never dosed calcium, or anything else. The tank has been cloudy since Thursday morning.

 

I added a bag of Reefpods http://www.marinedepot.com/AlgaGen_Reefpods_Copepods_Food_8oz_Liquid_Fish_Coral_Food-AlgaGen_LLC-GV00005-FIFDLI-vi.html Tuesday, when I added my clam. They were in live phyto and I poured the whole bag phyto and all into my tank just like it said to do. Do you think this could be a phyto bloom? The water is not green, it looks like there are tiny white particles in the water.

 

Everything is alive and well in the tank. I'll post pictures of how good my clam looks once the main lights come on.

[bobkat330]

did you put the phosphate remover in it like you talk about in a nother topice??? if so what type and did you clean it off first or just put it in????

[Mitchell]

did you put the phosphate remover in it like you talk about in a nother topice??? if so what type and did you clean it off first or just put it in????

 

No not yet, BRS sent me faulty parts, so I am waiting for them to send me replacements.

[Rick]

Ok I tested my calcium and it is at 560. I looked in my log book and Thursday when I last tested my calcium it was at 600 not 580 like I first said. I have never dosed calcium' date=' or anything else. The tank has been cloudy since Thursday morning.[/quote']

Go back even further if possible and check earlier calcium readings. Did you use new sand? Did you rinse it well? New sand can add a lot of calcium especially if it isn't rinsed well. The fact that your calcium has dropped by 10 ppm per day in a new tank is further evidence to suggest calcium precipitation.

 

I added a bag of Reefpods http://www.marinedepot.com/AlgaGen_Reefpods_Copepods_Food_8oz_Liquid_Fish_Coral_Food-AlgaGen_LLC-GV00005-FIFDLI-vi.html Tuesday, when I added my clam. They were in live phyto and I poured the whole bag phyto and all into my tank just like it said to do. Do you think this could be a phyto bloom? The water is not green, it looks like there are tiny white particles in the water.

I think a phyto bloom would turn the water green. When calcium precipitates it looks kind of like a snowstorm in the water. Are the rocks getting covered in white particles?

 

Everything is alive and well in the tank. I'll post pictures of how good my clam looks once the main lights come on.

It can take several days or even weeks to see any negative effects so this doesn't really mean much at this point.

 

Based on what you have said I would give it a few more days before doing anything drastic. Even if it's an algae bloom I still wouldn't take any drastic measures. Give it some time to stabilize. Maybe run some carbon in a filter or sump if you have the ability to do so. If you don't have a way to run a filter right now send me a PM. I've got several hob filters here that could be hung on the back of the tank that would work to run carbon for awhile. I would just need to sort through them to put a complete one together. (I took them all apart to get them cleaned up)

[rubberduck9]

yo

 

Test the water you are getting from Tim. Its coming from the water your putting in your tank. Buy an RODI unit next and start mixing your own. That should have been the first thing I purchased! :( [language filter] it sucks luggin around 5gal buckets of water!!!!

[reefboy]

folks theres allot of ways to start a tank and his water could be cloudy from a fish stirring the sand if he used fine sand, Now we all know he has made a few mistakes but sheesh back off or get off your key board and actually help the guy instead of spout belittling remarks everyone has there own way but not every way is right for every person and from what I know of Tim I'm sure his waters perfect or why sell it.My advice disregard everyone else's advice talk with Tim or one reefer you trust so things don't get anymore confusing as you know what mistakes you made and have corrected them enough said.

[grassi]

Too much information lol

He sent me a pm and I'm gonna follow him that way.

We all killed something for our mistakes, right? He's really trying to fix everything and to learn with a good approach and interest. Let's not scare him away from the hobby

[OwenReefin]

As a person setting up my first reef tank, I got really intimidated by this thread and his other. I don't want to mess up now !!!

[jackaninny]

As a person setting up my first reef tank' date=' I got really intimidated by this thread and his other. I don't want to mess up now !!! [/quote']

 

Ask first then act. Lots of people make mistakes and even if you have to filter a bunch of responses you'll get a good idea of how to proceed.

[Rick]

Too much information lol

He sent me a pm and I'm gonna follow him that way.

We all killed something for our mistakes, right? He's really trying to fix everything and to learn with a good approach and interest. Let's not scare him away from the hobby

 

Just be sure to keep us updated on what is found so it will benefit anyone that's interested.

[reefboy]

As a person setting up my first reef tank' date=' I got really intimidated by this thread and his other. I don't want to mess up now !!! [/quote']

 

this is a educational forum you should never feel intimated about anything you ask this completely ruins the point of this club and site, if folks feel they cant ask a question if they may of messed up then whats the point.

[reef165]

As a person setting up my first reef tank' date=' I got really intimidated by this thread and his other. I don't want to mess up now !!! [/quote']

 

I can see how you would feel!! One bit of advice though when asking for advice, weather it is a mistake you have made or what you are planning on doing, use the advice given, but realize that this hobbie is constantly changing and more info coming to play, I have been doing sps tanks for 15 years and I still learn things. The things I did and was advised to do when I got started are old school now. Plus there is the whole complacent factor. Best advice for all newbees is find someone with a tank you strive to have and ask them to mentor you, you can double check there advice here. Go slow, even if you know exactly whare you want to go and how to get there, there are steps to the prosess, and adjustments and maturing each tank must go through to minamise the loss of fish and corals, and to make healthy tanks.

[Emerald525]

As a person setting up my first reef tank' date=' I got really intimidated by this thread and his other. I don't want to mess up now !!! [/quote']

 

In this hobby there is so many things that could go wrong and it is so complex. It's not a matter of if you will make a mistake, it's a matter of when. We have all been there. I almost feel like starting a thread to some of the mistakes we have all made.

 

I read and do research and ask but you're going to make mistakes and for anyone to be critical and lecturing is not helpful. The fact that someone has the interest to ask for help should be encouraged. I just met someone today who used to be in the hobby and admitted he never read up on things he bought and lost a lot of fish. I had to explain why even though puffer fish are very cool why they should not go in a reef tank.(laugh)

[Mandinga]

how about an update Mitchell?

 

the calcium should come down on it's own...I would bet that is what caused the cloudy water.

 

Since you aren't adding Ca, I would ask tim what his water is testing at. Common sense tells me that this much calcium isn't from any amount of sand...even un-rinsed.

[Mandinga]

Not sure if this was mentioned or not, but you should also add a prefilter and carbon... just make sure you get enough filter floss to change it out once water clears.

 

 

cheers