Why you shouldn't use bleach for cleaning filter socks: my point of view

[jackaninny]

The recharge instructions for Purigen are:

 

"Soak in a 1:1 bleach:water solution for 24 hours in a non-metalic container in a well ventilated area and away from children. Rinse well, then soak for 8 hours with a solution containing 2 tablespoons of ChlorGuard, Prime®, or equivalent dechlorinator per cup of water. Rinse well."

 

 

IF I were bleaching anything I would probably add a soak in a dechlorinator such as Prime just to be safe.

[grassi]

Don't you wash a new tank out with bleach? Cuz thats what I am doing with my setup... I'm not screwing myself am I?

 

I don't know about this. My tests were about the cleaning power of bleach on a filter sock, while the toxicity of it was just intended to be a possible side effect.

I know that some stores do use muriatic acid for cleaning used tanks.

[Lowman]

Don't clean your glass tanks with anything but white vinegar. Muratic acid will eat the silicone sealants. Every used glass tank I have ever set up got a cursory scrape of algae, then set right up. i think the material left helps with cycling. Muratic acid is good for cleaning acrylic tanks.

[fpd4308]

I am with bob on this one. Just a quick scrape down and set it up. I don't like to make things to complicated and worrisome.

[grassi]

Yes I wasn't suggesting to use it, just to let you know...

White vinegar here as well, razor blade for glass and dobie pad for acrylic (in case you don't have to buff it out)

[reefnjunkie]

I know I have to change it every saturday. I don't need to see the color change. The raising water level in the sock will tell me if it need to be changed before.

I just save myself time and water not using bleach. And not using another chemical make me feel better

 

As for being armful or not, with the testing equipment we have at hand, we can't say either way. It also depends on what kind of species you are keeping.

What I'm saying is that, other than for our eyes, we are not cleaning it better in order to have a better filtration performance. I'm sure some people, me included, were thinking that using bleach was a way to clean the sock better.

 

 

 

Good point-no sense in using the bleach perhaps-I usually spill the stuff on other laundry and the wife is not happy(wife)

[grassi]

GREAT!

It worked!!!

Soaked with about 1/4 of a cup of 3% hydrogen peroxide for a couple of hours, then washed (cotton, hot, extra rinse).

Hydrogen peroxide does not leave any chemical, it dissolves into water to water and oxygen. You can now safely have a white filter sock with no risk and without a lot of rinsing. I still suggest to let them dry to let the chlorine evaporate

 

Some algae already decomposing and living a brown juice

Clean as with bleach

But without the risk and the bad smell

Just a little bit of bubble noise lol

[grassi]

Ok, now I need a rocket scientist to know how to get rid of my dog hair from the filter sock

[Smann]

Ok' date=' now I need a rocket scientist to know how to get rid of my dog hair from the filter sock [/quote']

 

Yeah and everything else i own including my toothbrush

[grassi]

Yeah and everything else i own including my toothbrush

 

Yeah, they go everywhere. Proteins for corals... not too bad (naughty)

[ReeFit]

How much peroxide to use ratio to water? I do 9-12 socks at a time.

Thanks for the research and info. I'll be changing up my cleaning routine.

[grassi]

You are welcome Robert, it was fun to play the crazy basement scientist

You don't mix it with water. You just pour some directly on the sock, each side. Better if you let it dry (dirty) so it will absorb all the peroxide (I had a dry dirty one and it worked well like that). I did about 1/4 of a cup, but I will try with less to make it cheaper, maybe with more time soaking (it was still working when I put it into the washer). We have to test a bit.

With more than one, I will just put them one on top of the other on a pile, so the peroxide will do down by gravity.

You have more socks than a millipedes!

[finch6013]

interesting experiment. I will consider trying peroxide in the future.

[grassi]

Somebody suggested me this article. Make your wife happy and suggest to try hydrogen peroxide instead of bleach

 

 

 

Cleaner's Chempanion

From Volume 20, Issue 8 - August 2005

http://www.cleanfax.com/article.asp?IndexID=6635521

 

The versatility of hydrogen peroxide

 

Everywhere you turn, you see peroxide touted as a cleaning tool of choice — it's a versatile solution to many challenges.

by: Aziz Ullah, Ph.D., MBA

 

Hydrogen peroxide is one of the most versatile, safe, dependable and environmentally desirable chemicals available.

 

Its many uses include bleaching of textiles and paper pulp, oxidizing, and an odor control agent for biological, industrial and municipal waste, including urine and fecal matter.

 

It is also used to detoxify organic and inorganic waste.

 

Hydrogen peroxide has many new applications, a number that is expanding each day. It is virtually the only bleaching agent for protein fibers, and is also very extensively used for cellulosic fibers like cotton.

 

Because oxygen bleaches do not damage dyestuffs, fabrics and fabric finishes, they are preferred to chlorine-based bleaches.

 

Hydrogen peroxide fights germs and bacteria — without staining.

 

Hydrogen peroxide is particularly attractive in that it:

Adds only water and oxygen to a system, and does not create additional environmental problems

Requires simple, minimal equipment to use

Is safe for textile finishes

Has excellent stain removal properties

Eliminates odors

Improves water quality in sewer systems

Helps reduce biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) and chemical oxygen demand (COD) — key parameters in determining water quality

Can detoxify cyanide, nitrogen compounds, chlorine, bisulfite, phenol and a host of other toxic based waste

It is both an oxidizer and reducer

Oxidation and reduction must occur at the same time in a chemical reaction.

 

For a substance to act as an oxidizing agent, it must gain electrons from another substance and have its own reduced (lose electrons), and vice versa.

 

A bleaching agent, which causes whitening to occur, does not itself become whiter because an oxidizing agent is not oxidized, but reduced.

 

Although hydrogen peroxide is a fairly strong oxidizer (gains electrons and gives up oxygen), it can act as a mild reducing agent (loses electrons, takes up oxygen); for example, towards permanganates, and reduces silver oxide to metallic silver.

 

Hydrogen peroxide, when an oxidizing agent, is reduced to water. It is also a reducing agent being oxidized to oxygen.

 

The decomposition of hydrogen peroxide is both an oxidation and a reduction reaction.

 

Marketed as a solution in water in a concentration of 3 to 90 percent by weight, solutions of hydrogen peroxide gradually deteriorate.

 

Hydrogen peroxide, especially when its concentration is over 50 percent by weight, requires great care in handling and storage. When dropped on paper or wood, it can ignite.

 

Understand weight, volume, percentage

The customary method expressing the strength of hydrogen peroxide solutions is by percentage weight (abbreviated w/w).

 

Formerly, it was common to use the expression "volume strength". Thus, 10 volume strength means that one volume unit of hydrogen peroxide will liberate 10 similar units of gaseous oxygen.

 

A 35 percent (w/w) solution of peroxide is equivalent to 130 volume strength, and a 50 percent (w/w) solution to 197 volume strength.

 

A 30 percent (w/w) solution of peroxide is equivalent to 100 volume strength.

 

The commercial strength supplied for textile uses are 35 and 50 percent.

 

Solutions containing more than 8 percent (w/w) hydrogen peroxide are corrosive to skin and cause intense irritation.

 

Contact with skin causes blotches that can be painful (should be washed away immediately), but will disappear after a few hours, without leaving traces.

 

Traces of certain metals or their salts act as catalysts, causing rapid decomposition of hydrogen peroxide.

 

Particularly active in this respect are copper and iron. If they are present in cotton before bleaching, the promoted oxidizing action will cause degradation or disintegration of the textile.

 

Solid forms of hydrogen peroxide

A number of solid peroxygen compounds are available in solid form, which release hydrogen peroxide when dissolved in water. These are more stable than the liquid form and easier to handle.

 

Since the 1960s, U.S. manufacturers have used sodium perborate tetrahydrate in heavy-duty powders and dry bleaches. In addition to its stability, the product exhibits excellent bleaching characteristics and is relatively safe and easy to handle. The low solubility in water of this product limits its use.

 

Drying sodium perborate tetrahydrate produces sodium perborate monohydrate. This product dissolves much more readily than the tetrahydrate and shows good stability. Because the perborates are either activated (release hydrogen peroxide) at high temperatures or by the use of activator catalysts, they have not gained much in popularity.

 

Sodium percarbonate or sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate gives good alkalinity and a good rate of dissolution. It has good performance characteristics, but is less easy to formulate into other products. Sodium percarbonate is available from suppliers of carpet cleaning chemicals. Sodium percarbonate can be added to a ready to use cleaning solution, but because of the limited stability after the solution is made, only enough should be made that can be used for each job. Sodium percarbonate is kinder to fibers and safer to use on water cleanable fabrics and colorfast dyes. It can brighten and improve cleaning and remove oxidizable stains that normally resist cleaning chemicals. It reduces graying of colors and yellowing of whites, and improves brightness on repeat cleanings.

 

Magnesium monoperoxyphthalate hexahydrate, unlike other solid forms, liberates the peracid directly and is soluble at low temperatures. This product has the ability to rapidly bleach stains and has a high biocidal activity. This product has not achieved commercial importance.

 

Peroxide and stain removal

Much stain removal is carried out by oxidation, with oxidized bleaches such as hydrogen peroxide.

 

The oxidation removes most stains, while generally not affecting fast colors; unlike chlorine bleach, hydrogen peroxide has virtually no adverse effect on textile fibers or on most dyes.

 

Hydrogen peroxide in cold water removes blood stains from cotton and linen fabrics. Potassium permanganate, another oxidizing agent, removes most stains from white fabrics (except rayon). The resulting permanganate stain can then be removed by treatment with oxalic acid.

 

It was at one time thought that that the oxidizing action of hydrogen peroxide depended on the fact that it readily underwent decomposition with the liberation of oxygen:

 

H2O2 —> H2O + O

This explanation, however, is no longer valid. There is no absolute certainty about the nature of the bleaching action, but it is believed that the perhydroxyl ion is the active species.

 

These ions are formed when hydrogen peroxide dissociates in the following manner:

 

H2O2 <—> HO+ + HO-2

It is a well-known fact that bleaching is more rapid in alkaline than in acid solutions.

 

This may well be because the hydroxyl ions present in the alkaline solution neutralize the hydrogen ions, thereby promoting the liberation of perhydroxyl ions.

 

In most ceiling tile cleaners, the active component is hydrogen peroxide ranging in strength from 10 to 35 percent (w/w), and the inert component is a dilute alkaline detergent solution, sometimes ammoniated.

 

The two components are then mixed and sprayed on the tiles, resulting in oxidizing the stains and bleaching any other associated coloring matter.

 

Hydrogen peroxide has been effective in the removal of urine stains, and can be effectively employed to remove acid dye stains by the heat transfer method.

 

Hydrogen peroxide at about 10 percent (w/w), when mixed with ammoniated detergent solution, makes an effective coffee stain remover.

 

Odor control with peroxide

Hydrogen peroxide not only has a high biocidal activity but, unlike other biocides, actually breaks the bonds of odor-causing molecules, rendering them harmless, and in most cases, reducing them into the most elemental forms.

 

Hydrogen peroxide appears to be one of the most effective and reliable methods of odor control in sanitary sewers.

 

Hydrogen peroxide is being commercially employed in tannery effluent clean-up, waste odor problems in dairies, for treatment of shipboard waste, and waste cleanup at breweries.

 

 

Hydrogen peroxide adds dissolved oxygen to water, which helps prevent anaerobic (absence of oxygen) conditions, which causes malodorous conditions.

 

Hydrogen peroxide has been successfully used in control of fecal and urine odors.

 

Skunk odor removal

Alkaline hydrogen peroxide has been used to scrub hydrogen sulfide gas from waste gas streams.

 

This reagent works well with thiols that are smelly compounds of sulfur.

 

Because skunk spray is composed mainly of low molecular weight thiols, like n-butyl mercaptan and dicrotyl sulfide, a dilute solution of hydrogen peroxide mixed with baking soda and a little wetting agent such as liquid hand soap is very effective in removing skunk-type odors.

 

Bleaching

Calcium or sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) should never be used on wool because they discolor and damage the fiber.

 

It is important when using hydrogen peroxide to achieve the right level of stability.

 

If the pH is too low, no perhydroxyl ions are set free, and bleaching will not take place. But when the pH is too high, the hydrogen peroxide becomes too unstable and the whole of perhydroxyl ions are decomposed with the liberation of oxygen before it has had time to act on the textile.

 

It is virtually impossible to adjust to the optimum pH with alkali alone, and it is necessary to add a stabilizer which will keep the pH within the limits of 8 to 9, when both wool and cotton goods can be effectively bleached.

 

Catalysts that speed up the decomposition of peroxide can be extremely dangerous in the peroxide bleaching of protein fibers.

 

Bleaching of protein fibers with hydrogen peroxide can cause degradation of the protein fiber, unless the alkalinity and temperature are properly controlled.

 

There are occasions when bleaching with hydrogen peroxide at a pH lower than 7 is desirable, especially when the goods contain colored fibers that do not show good color fastness to alkalis.

 

Shipping

Hydrogen peroxide of 8 to 20 percent by weight strength falls under hazard class 5.1 and must carry an "oxidizer" hazard label; maximum unit quantity that can be shipped is 2.5 liters (0.66 gallons) by UPS ground, and packaged according to packing group II.

 

Hydrogen peroxide of greater than 20 percent (w/w) strength has even greater restriction, and the unit quantities that may be shipped are smaller.

 

Violations of shipping regulations may subject the shipper to fines and/or prosecution by appropriate federal authorities. For details see DOT 49 Code of Federal Regulations Part 173.

 

A word of caution

Before you rush out to buy and use hydrogen peroxide, make sure you understand the product.

 

As mentioned earlier, hydrogen peroxide works very effectively, but you may have to experiment with the type of material or purpose you want to use it for, as well as the conditions, such as concentration, working temperature, stability of pH, and the use of a catalyst.

 

This may require patience.

 

Aziz Ullah, Ph.D., MBA, is president of Fabpro Manufacturing, a leading formulator of top-quality carpet and upholstery cleaning products. He is a member of the American Chemical Society, senior member of the American Association of Textile Chemists and Colorists, and a member of The Textile Institute (UK). He can be reached at www.fabpro.com.

[tigerv503]

Wow thank you for the time and effort on gathering all the facts. Reefing is a very difficult hobby, there are so many factors which can harm our livestock! Good work Grassi.

 

Vin B.O.M "Blue Ocean Marines Inc."

[CA2OR]

Dude....I think that is the longest post I have ever read on this forum. Jamie, or alex...whoever just posted that....I say bravo man. You are and always been a very knowledgable and informative member and I for one can say that it is members like you that keep me here and paying......there I said it.

 

I will say for you lazy folk who didn't read that entire post....I was told almost on day 1 "NEVER use bleach on anything that is involved with your tank....no socks, pads, foams, towels you use to dry your hand....or clean your tank or equipment with (because we all know when messing with your tanks....well....you get your hands wet) or anything I missed...you understand what I'm saying..." I think is how he said it. Basically....no bleach in tank.

 

Side note for you new fathers and mothers....Purell is really bad too. Take my word for it....oh....and so is gasoline and oil as well.....still unsure on spit up, drool ( I think I am safe here....or baby food and formula....any ideas?

 

Question....is blood bad for tanks for any reason?

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

[CA2OR]

I edited my previous post and ended up adding like 2 paragraphs so I wanted to bump this....serious question....is blood bad and why? If you must know....I....had a bad experience recently with one of my inhabitants...and that's all I am going to say about that....

 

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

[OwenReefin]

Historically, chlorine bleach was developed as part of the military chemical weapon arsenal in the 1940s before WWII - the wonderful time period that also gave us petrochemical pesticides - byproducts of WWII nerve gasses

 

Lol found this when I exploring further the properties of bleach and H202.

[Bigjohnwoody]

Ok I have to know this! Why use a filter sock? I thought I read that they just turn into nitrite heaven's and they are a nuisance! I designed my setup not to have any should I reconsider?

[OwenReefin]

A filter sock is a nitrate haven? I've only heard that saying when people bash on bioballs

[Smann]

How much peroxide needs to be applied, does it need to be saturated or could you use a spray bottle on the dirty side. Are you rinsng the sock first?

Thanks for the info Alex

[grassi]

Dude....I think that is the longest post I have ever read on this forum. Jamie, or alex...whoever just posted that....I say bravo man. You are and always been a very knowledgable and informative member and I for one can say that it is members like you that keep me here and paying......there I said it.

 

I will say for you lazy folk who didn't read that entire post....I was told almost on day 1 "NEVER use bleach on anything that is involved with your tank....no socks, pads, foams, towels you use to dry your hand....or clean your tank or equipment with (because we all know when messing with your tanks....well....you get your hands wet) or anything I missed...you understand what I'm saying..." I think is how he said it. Basically....no bleach in tank.

 

Side note for you new fathers and mothers....Purell is really bad too. Take my word for it....oh....and so is gasoline and oil as well.....still unsure on spit up, drool ( I think I am safe here....or baby food and formula....any ideas?

 

Question....is blood bad for tanks for any reason?

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

 

It was me (Alex). Thanks for your compliments Eric. I don't know about blood, but I'll tell you this: you can soak burp clothes into peroxide and they will come out clean and baby safe. It is where I got the idea from

[grassi]

Bigjohnwoody, I ran my system without socks for more than a year. Now I feel I need to and I'm using 2. I had some bubbles and the water wasn't as clear as I wanted. If you are diligent and you keep them clean, they are not gonna pollute your tank.

 

Smann, I don't rinse them (even if doing it would be better so your wife doesn't find snails in the filter!). The first time I saturated them. Yesterday just sprayed quickly on both sides. Then turned it so the peroxide reached all the sock. It worked well. You have to ear the hydrogen peroxide working (bubbles noise)

[Smann]

Last question, where do you buy it besides the small bottle at the grocery store?

[grassi]

I buy it the 1/4 gallon for $1,something at the grocery store. It will last a few months if cleaning a couple of socks weekly