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Am I out of line?


madmike
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What do you think is right in this situation? Maybe I am out of line?

 

I recently agreed to purchase a potters angel for sale from one of our locals named Chris. I had purchased a ph meter from him in the past and he seemed like a stand up guy (albeit he did inspect my bills for the watermarks...are there alot of counterfeit bills exchanged in this hobby?). When I got to his place, he proceeded to "try" and net the fish I was purchasing. He chased the fish for about 3-4 minutes and finally got in into his net. During the netting the gill spine became caught in the net and he couldn't free it. I watched silently not wanting to "step on any toes" as he went and got a turkey baster to try and blow the fish free. This did not work so he tried to use his coral cutters to cut the net to get the fish out. All the while the fish was upside down about an inch into the water at the top of his tank. After 3-5 minutes, I finally said, why dont you hold the net and I will grab the fish and free him. We got the fish free but it was obviously stressed in the bucket, swimming on its side.

 

What would you have done in this situation?

 

I did the wrong thing... I assumed that this is somewhat of a gentlemans hobby and if the fish would die during acclimation just minutes later at my home, the seller would make it right. I purchased the fish and it went belly up in the acclimation container less than 45 minutes after its chase/net fiasco:confused:

 

I immediatly called the seller and his phone went to voicemail. I left him a pm letting him know that the fish had died in acclimation and I though the stressful capture was just too much for it. The seller responded that he would give me 1/2 my money back because he felt that the fish was sold

"as is" an that I should have asked him before I took it.

 

Am I out of line for wanting my money back after this? What do you think?

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when purchasing from classifieds, it is in my opinion that everything is as is after final bill of sale. If that was my situation I would have left the fish there in his tank without making the sale until it calmed back down. Its kind of the nature of the beast when your not dealing with a retail LFS that has resources to make a wrong right.

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Tough call. Hind site can be told by all. With the additional stress the fish went thought and then re acclimating was just too much total stress. You did accept the fish with no agreement. Yes it would have been nice of the seller to give all the money back, but again you saw all the stress the animal went through first hand. I would have passed. I'm not just saying it. I have in the past. The fish did recover in it's native tank but it too 2 weeks as the stress was just to much.

 

 

I feel that splitting it is a good thing. Your both out unfortunatly but at least it is even.

 

I do not see fault on the seller.

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Wow, I guess I just live my life differently in the place that I am. I see myself as more of the Nordstroms philosophy of making things right in all (okay most) circumstances. I guess I just don't have the attitude to tell someone that I am not going to purchase something once they have gone thru all of the trouble and I have agreed to purchase. Leasons learned...

 

The last livestock I sold was my pair of Allardi clownfish to Barrelycuda (dave). The female was swimming really funny when i got them there and I just didn't feel right taking money from him. I told him to wait and let me know how they did before paying for them...

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The checking bills for watermarks is odd...

 

yah I know.... I should have went with my gut and passed this one by.

 

 

But maybe I'm the A hole here, seems like all sales are final in this day and age of our economy. I told him to just keep all of the money, maybe he needed it...

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You both agreed to a purchase/sale...you were present and saw what took place...this hobby involves death sometimes...you both are out a fish...

 

If I were him, I'd give you all your money back to keep person happy...

if I were you, I'd take half and not accept "rodeoed" fish in the future (I know you were trying to accept his effort)...

 

You both lost...just let the money reflect that...I've gotten angels caught in net before...they are no fun to get out...doesn't sound like he was careless..

 

I've been GIVEN corals by people on this forum that died and they REPLACED them...most people in this hobby are OVERLY, WONDERFULLY generous...some aren't...he is one who ain't...

 

DrMerle

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Mike your just MAD:) .... I had the same thing happen with woody and he swapped me out no questions asked 3 days later. One of his clerks netted a 6 line and it jumped out of the net and hit the floor when he was trying to bag it.

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The last livestock I sold was my pair of Allardi clownfish to Barrelycuda (dave). The female was swimming really funny when i got them there and I just didn't feel right taking money from him. I told him to wait and let me know how they did before paying for them...

 

This is how we all should be, but unfortunatley people like you often times get taken advantage of too, It sucks..

 

I totally understand your situation though, I too would feel awkward telling the person.... "thanks but no thanks" in thier own home...Its a difficult situation...All I can think of to say is...lesson learned, you just got to move on...I have told myself that many times now...it sucks...

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Mike your just MAD

 

Haha, I'm not mad really... just dissapointed (oh no, I have officially become my parents!) I was just raised differently. I look at this as a hobby, not about the money. I have been fortunate enough to go to college and get my Doctorate and make a very good living, even in this economy. When I see posts like Franks wife begging for her wedding rings back because someone in the hobby stole them while they were invited into their house, it makes me not want to be a part of this community.

 

This guy is breaking down his reef so I doubt he really cares either way, but you know what they say about kharma ;)

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I don't think you are out of line at all Mike. First of all I would have caught the fish before I had you come over. I have a Hippo tang, I would love to get out of my reef tank and another member has dibs on it but would not have him come over until it is caught which probably will be never LOL.

 

If the fish died particularly with all it went through, I would have given your money back. I don't expect that from Craigslist but I do expect more from our forum members here.

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The way I see it is as soon as the fish leaves my hands, it is out of my control and up to you to keep it alive, and with the understanding that I wouldn't sell a fish that was sick or stressed to the point where it might die. Aggression, water quality, and transportation practices I have no control over, and I don't feel responsible for anything once it leaves my house. Just my two cents.

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The way I see it is as soon as the fish leaves my hands, it is out of my control and up to you to keep it alive, and with the understanding that I wouldn't sell a fish that was sick or stressed to the point where it might die. Aggression, water quality, and transportation practices I have no control over, and I don't feel responsible for anything once it leaves my house. Just my two cents.

 

I completely agree that you have no idea what kind of condition the fish is going into. (Just for the record, it was going into my 400 gallon 12 foot long reef that houses a pair spawning bellus angels and most who have seen my system know that the fish would be well taken care of.)

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This is a tough one. I think you shoulder some of the blame for taking the fish home. Personally I would have had him leave the fish in his tank for a day or two so it would settle down. That said, I have held corals for people from Ebay buys and hobbyists and LFS and what not and had some die. I have always replaced them, even though all I was doing was holding them. So if you had bought the fish from me, I would have either kept the fish until it was not stressed, or not taken your money until it settled in your tank and knew for sure it would live.

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Mike, I had the EXACT same thing happen to me recently, but it was a LFS who dropped the fish...

 

 

I am not going to drop their pants in front of everyone, but I will be speaking with the dropper of the fish this weekend. Not sure the correct way to handle these situations.

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If I stood by and watched the fish be "rodeoed" as you called it and then chose to accept the fish after the fact I would have not asked for a refund. On the flipside, I think if I had seen this take place I would have stated why dont we hold off until the fish calms down and isnt so stressed out. Gladly to complete the purchase on another day. Even leaving the money as a deposit pending a healthy fish. But thats just me.

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if it were me I would refund your money especially if I did what he did in fact I just ate a 300.00 frag that I should have not shipped even though my little voice said not to but a friend is worth more then a sale and checking the water mark in my OP is rude I don't even count folks money in front of them, I figure you only get one shot to screw me so ;)

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Haha, I'm not mad really... just dissapointed (oh no, I have officially become my parents!) I was just raised differently. I look at this as a hobby, not about the money. I have been fortunate enough to go to college and get my Doctorate and make a very good living, even in this economy. When I see posts like Franks wife begging for her wedding rings back because someone in the hobby stole them while they were invited into their house, it makes me not want to be a part of this community.

 

This guy is breaking down his reef so I doubt he really cares either way, but you know what they say about kharma ;)

 

Wow someone stole wedding rings do we know who it was?

 

P.S. I would take half my money back and still be disappointed but with at least you would have half your money back. Maybe you can get him to paypal you the money so you don't have to see him again.

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I completely agree that you have no idea what kind of condition the fish is going into. (Just for the record' date=' it was going into my 400 gallon 12 foot long reef that houses a pair spawning bellus angels and most who have seen my system know that the fish would be well taken care of.)[/quote']

 

If the person does not know you from Adam or your system, you have keep in mind there are as many scammers out there as there are straight up folks

Bad situation but when buying items from strangers it is buyer beware and all sales are "as is" and come with the 30/30 guarantee, 30 feet or seconds which ever comes first.

 

Splitting the difference is a fair resolution-not good, but better than zero

 

Unfortunate experience-

 

Me no speak English!!

 

Press #1, that usually works

 

I see the point as well but this is not craigslist. I agree there are risks with having a guarantee which speaks to buying things from people you know. I have seen madmike's system. He is not a newbie.

 

Now if it was say reefnjunke well then... (just kidding Brad)

 

No worries Kim, I roll with ya

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I actually had an issue when I sold my foxface a month or so ago. I sold it to a member and it died the next day. I felt like crap selling him a bad fish and I still tell him that to this day. He didn't ask for his money back but I've been buying stuff from him to make it up. I hate leaving things left undone for both parties. Me selling the foxface actually gave me a new reefin buddy so its worked out well.

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