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Piero
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skepticism is good...it's what drives the self-correcting nature of the scientific method. Any scientific theory, in order to gain any validity, is subjected to the harshest skepticism and critical analysis. But we should probably choose the safe course, and leave the actual research and data interpretation to the real scientists.

 

regardless of whether current predominant theories about climate change are right or wrong ...logic would seem to dictate that the safest course of action is a conservative one, because the cost of being wrong is too great.

 

And I'll defer judgment to the professionals. We're in no position to claim we know anything about the subject here....we're just uneducated hobbyists shooting off opinions we have no understanding of...the overall determinations of the worldwide scientific community over time is what holds any weight at all...not a couple of aquarium hobbyists with remedial scientific educations, eh?

 

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Many hobyists know 1st hand what can happen with a change and I'll bet has helped science learn a thing or two IMO. From the books I've been reading, there are a lot of hobbyists that are involved in the sciences as well. Hopefully they've gotten corals that are endangered or threatened into the hands of hobbyists to help keep it gowing/growing for future transplantations...just like how the Bald Eagle has made its comeback. (not that we kept eagles as pets, but this is something we can raise and breed) We can all do our part, no matter how small it is to make a difference. People think their small part of conserving won't do much good, but think about all the small parts together have hurt the environment in the first place. I like to go in the ocean without worry, but I can't anymore with all the crap in the water.

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I don't think this hobby has anything to do with conservation...yet. The marine ornamentals trade is all about consuming reef life, not preserving it. The activities of the trade contribute to reef depletion.

 

I do see your point though and it would be nice to think that the trade somehow might eventually give back to the wild habitats we "claim" to care about...but we do not. We take take take and never give back anything I think.

 

Encourage your LFS to donate a portion of their proceeds to conservation maybe? I wish there was actually a steep 'conservation tax' on all imported reef life that fed conservation efforts...only way to ensure that the industry that takes so much from wild reefs actually gives something back too...idunno.

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yes, good point...any business activity revolving around corals that are aquacultured and grown within the hobby does reduce the amounts we take directly from the oceasn...i stand corrected.

 

I guess my point was that the trade as a whole takes more than it gives back to wild habitat.

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yes, good point...any business activity revolving around corals that are aquacultured and grown within the hobby does reduce the amounts we take directly from the oceasn...i stand corrected.

 

I guess my point was that the trade as a whole takes more than it gives back to wild habitat.

 

 

 

While It's obvious that the hobby does "take" more than it gives.....I'd say that the private sector hobbiest is what's driving coral husbandry. The coral displays in public facilities are pathetic compared to the private sector. From what I've gathered in my speaking to a few public facilities that have coral propagation displays, it's the advances in the private sector....and its disemination on the web....that is providing needed husbandry info (and parsite info) to the public facilities. One day....when mass re-population of wild reefs is funded, the contributions from the hobbiest will be there too. I also wish that the hobby trade's impact could be more detailed in comparision to storms, farming, anchors, curio trade, etc. Our hobby does have an impact....but how much compared to other destructive pressures ?

 

 

Here's a question......As global warming (whether natural or man accellerated) continues....and as ocean water temps rise.......does that not mean that parts of the ocean that were once too cold to support stony reefs are now new real estate ? Maybe one day....instead of going to Hawaii, we will all just go to Astoria.

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Years ago, there were no marine fish grown in captivity, now there are many. People are growing and sharing their corals all the time. I just wish more people would do something with their fish eggs to help in conservation in the trade. Maybe we need a fish egg humane society or the like :). Some day as technology and learning increases, maybe there will be more marine life grown in captivity and we won't be dependant on taking from the ocean except to explore...one can dream, can't they? I like to share in gardening by trading plant starts and giving away produce and flowers; that's where I plan on taking this hobby of reef/fish keeping as well. I have an unknown forgotten romactic period flower from my old 1918 home that I've brought with me to 4 homes and shared over the years. Even experts don't know what it is, but we love it and it makes me feel good in keeping up a part of the past.

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Please don't refer to me as an uneducated hobbyiest... I study for hours before i buy' date=' do, or say anything.[/quote']

 

I'm sorry for any unintended offense but I think you misunderstood Twitter. I'm not referring to the hobby. My point is nobody here has a doctorate in climate science as far as I'm aware...which makes us uneducated on the subject compared to actual climatologists.

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I look at it like this, if there where as many horrticulturists in the world, back in the 60s 70s and 80s, when we literally RAPED the amazon rain forest, collecting and trading, cloning (fragging), and selling the millions of plant species that we erradicated, maybe we would have cures for AIDS, cancer, Ahlsheimers (i know i spelled that wrong) and many other diseases, and maladies that effect us everyday. Maybe as a hobby, us collecting, and trading corals, means that we will not exterminate these species. Thats my hope.

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I was not referring to the hobby either. I spent 2 years at BYU studying climate patterns, Global warming, and ozone depletion under some very respected professors. it is that experience that i draw my conclusions from.

 

just remember that 30 or so years ago they were freaking about a new ice age... odd.

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Or what about the impending shift in the earths magnetic field? Climatologists study a very specific field and get paid by the people that supply them funding to find out certain things. Even if they don't want to be biased if they don't come up with the answers that the people that are supplying them with the funding want the money goes away. The earth is an ever adapting place and it will change to adapt to the changes in climate. We have not been on the earth long enough to know what the heck is going on.

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We have not been on the earth long enough to know what the heck is going on.

 

I agree also. But it's seems to me that in the blink of an eye we've managed to pollute the heck out of the air and water and land....earth may be designed to change slowly...but humans seem to bring rapid change. We may have to be around a long time to fully understand the earth's cycles....but it doesn't take long to trash it apparently.

 

Given a level of uncertainty, it seams the safe thing to do would be to assume the worst. What's the worst thing that can happen if we clean up the use of fossile fuels? vs. What's the worst thing that might happen if we don't?

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I studied a bit of Oceanography/Weather in school, but heck if I remember much :).

What scares the hell out of me is when I put the damage we've done into perspective. The earth has said to have been around for millions of years...if so, it's taken pretty good care of itself. But, when you think of what we have done in just the past 100 years to polute the air, land and water, that's frightening!(puke)

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