orion Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Hi I have been in freshwater for about 5 years. I currently have 3 tanks running a 65gal 35gal and a 20gal. I had a 95gal running and finally transfered the fish to the 65 and 35 now I want to start a saltwater in the 95. I am thinking of selling or trading my freshwater tanks off and concentrating on salt. what equipment do I "need" or "have" to have to get started. Are there problems with using treated tap water in a salt setup. I unfortunately got laid off so if anyone has some used stuff to help me get started that would be great. Thanks for any advise or help Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCR Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 First WELCOME NEW "TOAD":) It all starts with what you want to end up with.(scratch) Fish corals, hard or soft. T-5 lighting or MH. First plan what you want to keep. We can help you fill in the gaps. ASK US LO'S OF QUESTIONS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 My wife and I would like to end up with a reef tank with fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfisher Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I started my tank 8 weeks ago. I had a HUGE mentor...Claythesavagefraser and this forum. Look up dj_giantti , he is a great guy, lots of knowledge and super cheap-not makin-a-buck deals. Jason in Salem who owns coral reef in Salem and Eric or Travis at Liquid Sunshine in Eugene are all great to deal with There are some Local Fish Stores aka LFS in PDX that get used stuff in all the time and a few phone calls should get you started. I have a 49g corner and had nothing but the tank. In less than 3 days I aquired a Eheim canister Pro 2, 2 Korlias #2's, a heater, a light fixture ( 250w double actinic with moon lighting---awsome!) live sand ( which I got from DJ and just returned 20 lbs that I didn't use, so get ahold of him) lots of large live rock peices and let it cycle for 4 weeks. I added a couple hearty Damsels to watch swim around and get the process accelerated. DO NOT RUSH INTO REEFING you will want to research everything first, no impulse buying. Find out what you like and then see if it compatible with everything on your list. You will be surprised how much info you can get on this site...WELCOME!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClayTheSavageFraser Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Ha!! Yeah!! As CA2OR Says "Nothing on a reef happens fast!" Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 I am prepared to take my time I want to go slow I cannot afford much at a time. I have 1 Magnum 350 filter and another canister about 2 times bigger, 2 48 inch florescent lights with coralife bulbs in them the 95 glass tank with stand 300 watt heater and a dual wheel bio wheel on the end of the magnum. So I guess I need salt, live sand, live rock, and a damsel or 2 to get it going. do I have to have other equipment first to get the tank started? I went to a LFS and they told me I need the water they have for sale and not to use tap water. is that true? I would love to just get the tank filled so it is not just sitting empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead77 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 First of all, (welcome) Best advice....Read, read, and read some more. Most guys will tell you that the canisters have got to go. Good for fresh, not so good for marine. Probably the first piece of equipment you will need is a good protein skimmer. If you're not going to run a sump, get a good HOB skimmer. Ditch the biowheels. Hopefully you've never run copper or copper based medications in the 95, as this will cause a lot of problems. Yes, you need live sand, live rock and salt. Unless you've tested your water and know it's good, use ro/di. Even getting it from a grocery store is better than tap. Set it up and let it cycle for 3-4 weeks. Test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (nitrogen cycle). After about a month, when nitrates read "0", it's time to add a couple fish. If you add some Damsels before the cycle is done, they will probably die. No need to do that, even to Damsels. The live rock and live sand will do the cycle for you. It's not much fun looking at a box of water for a month. but don't rush things. The next piece of equipment you will need are lights. If you've got the standard FW lights in a plastic hood, they probably won't be of much use in a reef tank. A nice set of (relatively) inexpensive T5's will get you started, but depending on the corals you want to keep, you may be limited by the T5's and will want to go with (relatively) expensive MH. Be prepared to drop a whole bunch of $ into that glass box as this does get addictive and thus, spendy. (scary) It's REALLY good that your wife is on board, (did I mention this can get expensive). (wife) Good luck, this forum is a wealth of information. Many members have years of experience and are more than willing to help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 First off welcome, Hi I have been in freshwater for about 5 years. I currently have 3 tanks running a 65gal 35gal and a 20gal. I had a 95gal running and finally transfered the fish to the 65 and 35 now I want to start a saltwater in the 95. I am thinking of selling or trading my freshwater tanks off and concentrating on salt. what equipment do I "need" or "have" to have to get started. You probably have all of the actual equipment really needed except for the lighting and perhaps a skimmer and maybe a pump. To get started though all you really need is the tank and a decent light. For that size tank toss in 100 lbs. or so of sand (I'm going to try to set up a group buy on sand in the next week or so) and another 100 lbs. or so of LR. If funds are tight this can be the most expensive (even at $2 a lb it's a couple ben franklins) so you might consider DIY rock but it will take a few months to make. (100 lbs. of DIY will be around 25 or 30 cents a lb. if you make it yourself) If you do the DIY you will still need some LR for seed rock. (10 lbs. or so of LR that can spread it's critters to the DIY rock) It's possible with just the above to get a decent reef tank started. Additional equipment desired but not absolutely necessary: Most of us run a sump on a tank that large where we have our skimmer, maybe more Live Rock, maybe a deep sandbed, and/or possibly some macro algae. For the 95 gallon tank your 20 gallon tank would work out well as a sump once some baffles were added to it. Or you can use a tote or extra small aquarium other than this instead. You will need a bit of plumbing and a return pump to add a sump. Inside the sump your going to want a good skimmer. You can go on from there and get a controller, calcium reactor, etc. but I would wait until you've been in the hobby awhile to decide to get these things if you want them. Are there problems with using treated tap water in a salt setup.A few get away with it but most end up using RO/DI water since tap water tands to be high in phosphates and isn't consistant. At about $1 per 5 gallon bucket (some lfs are more but I know of one or two that are a dollar) it's cheaper to be safe rather than sorry later. Watch for a cheap RO/DI unit to go up for sale here if you don't want to carry buckets to a LFS. I unfortunately got laid off so if anyone has some used stuff to help me get started that would be great. Thanks for any advise or help Tom Check the classified section here regularly. Also if your looking for something specific post it in the Want To Buy section. Good deals can be found on Craigslist as well and sometimes I find a deal at the LFS too. Best bet is get to know the market to find out what an item normally sells for. Then watch for a great deal on that item. In our current economy the deal will eventually present itself if your patient enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undrtkr_00 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (welcome) If I were in your shoes, I would check the classified section here and also craig's list. You can almost certainly buy an entire setup cheaper than individual parts. I realize you already have a tank, but you will want to pick up sand, rock, powerheads, lights, possibly a stand, hood, etc. There have been some incredible deals on entire tank setups over the past several months. Some people have said that you have all the right equipment but lights. I would add that, at a minimum, you will need to add some powerheads. Corals like much more flow than freshwater fish and plants. With a 95g tank, you'll want at least two large powerheads. I favor Koralia's myself, and would recommend a couple of Koralia 4's, but there are a number of brands and options out there. Alternately, since you are starting with an empty tank, you could skip the powerheads and drill some holes for a closed loop. That may be a little above your head at this point, but there are some folks who would love to help you out with a project like that. To clarify about the canister filter, your live rock will be your #1 form of biological filtration. The canister can be used if you want to keep the mechanical filter, (or down the road to use activated carbon or phosphate removal media) but you'll need to clean it and change out the filter more often than you would with freshwater (at least once/week). Many people will advise you to get rid of it altogether and go with a sump setup where you can have a skimmer, carbon, phosphate media, grow macroalgae, etc. In terms of lights, you can keep some saltwater fish and a very few kinds of corals with the lights you have now. What you probably have are known as normal output (NO) T8 fluorescents. I kept a few corals that had really low light needs under similar lights when I first got started, but soon upgraded to high output (HO) T5 fluorescents. These are smaller in diameter and much higher in efficiency (in terms of light intensity per watt). Metal halide lights are also really popular, and people will give you many opinions (and maybe a few facts) about the differences between the two, but much of it comes down to personal preference. Good lighting is expensive, but the more/better you have, the more options you have in terms of what kind of corals you will be successful with, the color you get out of them, and how much/fast they grow. There are a lot of friendly, helpful people here. There are also many differing pinions about what is necessary. My advice is to look at someone's tank (if they have a tank profile, pictures etc here, or in person) before taking their advice. See which tanks you like best and go to those folks for advice. Personally, I don't run a protein skimmer and am pretty happy with my results, but some folks will tell you they are absolutely necessary. There are a number of us near you in Oregon City. Just ask dsoz, kilmca, or me and we'd be happy to show off our tanks and you can see some different options for how to set one up. Also, as people have mentioned, this hobby gets expensive quickly. Be sure to have your credit card on the ready if you are going to take the plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 If you ever treated with copper, now is the time for you to fully grasp and understand that nothing that you currently have will be a good long term piece of a successful reef. Your filters, wheels, and tank have all been contaminated, and despite posts you will find around from people who claim to have removed all traces of copper from a tank, the odds of livestock mortality down the road for "unknown" reasons will far outweigh a reinvestment into new/used equipment more suited to saltwater reef keeping... things will die, get replaced, and this will add up to more than a fresh system... it is as easy as that! As stated above, there are some fantastic deals to be had in the used and classified listings around the area, and many stores are eager to help out that offer used gear, as it can if fairly done, be the building block for a life long customer. My personal recommendation would be this, not knowing the constraints of your budget, but keeping that in mind: Find a nice tank with good dimensions, a 40 breeder, 60 cube, 3' 75 gallon tank, something in that range, and purchase it used from someone who previously kept a reef in it... be wary of something cheap from craigslist where the seller doesn't know if copper was used... follow this mantra "if they don't know, say hell no!" Sell all of your current equipment to make this purchase. If you are not handy, get a setup with a stand and canopy, you may think you can save making your own, but that almost never happens A nice tank with stand and canopy can be had for 200-400 dollars if you are patient and wait, at the upper end a smaller tank should have some other goodies with it. If you get a really good deal on the tank, or can get it with some gear, find the other main components of a tank... skimmer (don't skimp here, we can help you find something good) powerheads, a return pump, a sump, and basic lights. This should run anywhere from 250-400 dollars depending on the deal you get, how used the items are, and what comes with your initial tank setup. The hidden cost to throw in at this point is the consumables and little things... salt for a big tank is going to be around 50 bucks for a bucket that will give you enough for some water changes. A basic test kit will be another 50 bucks. You will need some plumbing supplies, this can be either very cheap, or ridiculously expensive depending on how much of a Rube Goldberg fan you are. You will need a thermometer, a hydrometer, and a grounding probe if you are using a lot of recycled equipment. All said and done, this area can be around 150.00 to 200.00 Add all that up, and you can see where the value of getting a turn key system begins to shine. Once you have all of the above, set it up, fill it up, throw in a bag of sand and a few lbs of live rock (there is such a thing as the wrong sand and rock, we can help you with that) and get it running. Every week for a month, as your budget allows, add more sand and more rock... the quantity depending on the volume of the system. At this point you can FINALLY begin thinking about putting living things into the tank. This is where the fun and the ultimate real expense comes in. If you are reading this today, this will put you at around November for your first livestock, assuming you get your equipment going this weekend. Please take a second to re-read that last statement, I am not joking there If you start to look and are frightened by the cost of equipment to do things right, then I can save you a ton of cash and time and suggest now that this will not be a hobby that will bring you long term satisfaction! Almost everyone in this hobby started out on a budget, trying to skimp and save and scratch things together, and almost nobody here is still using that initial system.. so learn from all of us, read a lot, ask a lot of questions, get a buddy to shop with you, go slow, and be deliberate... do it right the first time and you will find a life long hobby that your whole family will enjoy together without the stress of equipment replacement, livestock death and replacement, and the eventual breakdown of what you will come to view as your baby. Welcome aboard, don't let me discourage you, I only hope to persuade you to set off on your adventure in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 There are a number of us near you in Oregon City. Just ask dsoz, kilmca, or me and we'd be happy to show off our tanks and you can see some different options for how to set one up. . Ditto. If you want to come look at our tanks, just come on up the hill. Mine needs a good cleaning at the moment, but you are still welcome to look. Also, once you do take the plunge, get your tank cycled and let me know. I will give you some starter corals so that you can have some life in your tank. I know how expensive just starting the tank can be, and that often leaves no money to get corals to start with. Which fish store did you go to? I would recommend one of our sponsors like Upscales (Tualitin) or Saltwater FantaSeas (Parkrose). Most of the sponsors here will tell you the truth about what you need, and not just try to sell you a bunch of junk. But before you buy anything, ask on here to get oppinions about wether you need it, or should have it in your system. If you have 10 people answer you, you will have 12 different oppinions to choose from. Good luck. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 ....But before you buy anything, ask on here to get oppinions about wether you need it, or should have it in your system. If you have 10 people answer you, you will have 12 different oppinions to choose from. .... I agree. Or at the very least search here and find previous discussions when possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 Thanks for all of the advice thus far! It's definitely helpful. We know that despite the cost it's something that we're really excited about doing, so I guess it's a good thing that we need to start slower. We've posted our freshwater tanks up on craigslist and will hopefully have some starter income soon. After we get that, I'm more than happy to take a couple of you shopping with me. heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krux Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 there is a really sweet deal on a 90 with stand and canopy in the classified section of this board right now, you may want to talk to the seller and see if you can bundle some other goods with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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