impur Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Ok so here is what i really really want. 30x30x24 glass rimless tank with an external overflow, 3 starphire sides, black silicon and a couple holes in the back for the return. I got a very nice quote from Joel at Waves, everywhere else either won't do the external overflow or the tank will be around 2k shipped. Not interested in spending that much for just the tank. So i began getting quotes on acrylic. Being made from acrylic will require 1" thick acrylic. And I rec'd a very nice quote from James on it. I'm lucky that both of these are local and i can avoid shipping. This is where problems creep into play. Being rimless and the size of the tank I cannot get a warranty on the acrylic tank. I would like to use a couple vortechs as my sole water movement. The maximum thickness these pumps work with is 3/4". That would rule out acrylic. Joel just started making tanks and I have only seen pictures of one tank he has made. Not knocking Joel in anyway here the tank i've seen pictures of looks to be top notch, but I'm leery that even a simple error would turn my prized possession into, well you know. Not to mention what it would do to my home. I am remodeling the whole area where my tank will go and all that work would be ruined. I thought about making the tank myself out of glass. This would save me some $$ but again a small error and........I think I would be more apt to make an error than Joel would being the first tank build for me. I like glass because its harder to scratch than acrylic. I'm interested in acrylic because its so much lighter. UGH! So i'm stuck! Maybe i just need a nudge one way or the other but its a pretty big investment. Ideas????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Here's an idea Miles... have one of each made then give me the one you decide not to keep (clap) Seriously though, these both sound like nice options and I would have a hard time deciding as well. I guess knowing James wouldn't be comfortable guaranteeing the rimless acrylic tank would make me a little nervous with that choice so maybe the starfire is the way to go in this case - then you would also get the benefit of being able to use the Vortechs. It's interesting though as I am not sure whether the rimless glass would really be any less likely to fail than the rimless acrylic... might be interesting to hear the reasoning there. I think the scratch resistance and ease of cleaning would be a benefit of the Starfire but you would pay a weight penalty for sure. Good luck deciding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanareef Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 That a nice dimension for a rimless cube. James always overbuilds his tanks and that's why they look so good. Acrylic or glass pro's and cons. I would also go with the Starfire for the clarity and little more scratch resistance - little bit more, glass will still scratch. As albertareef mentioned get both so if you don't like either, I'll take the other one DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePremiumAquarium Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Sounds like you have kind of made the glass tank sound like a better option for you. Vortechs wouldn't work on the acrlyic and there would be no guarantee on it either(though I doubt there would be a problem). Tough call. I am going to flip a coin... 1 sec Heads ---> looks like glass is my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I have a 24x24x18 rimless cube(1" on viewable sides) made by James. The back is 3/4" with an external overflow. If you make the external overflow HUGE it will add strength to the 3/4" wall. My overflow is about half of the back wall, and has ZERO bow at all. The 3/4" is nice because I can run my Tunze nanostream with the magnet. For your situation I would probably go acrylic. Just use the white scrapers that James sells and a algae pad. It's super easy on a rimless tank, no worries about scratches that way. The only scratches I have put into my 90g 1/2" acrylic tank were from trying to use a magnet(with new pad), and from the fish trap I tried to wedge into the front of the tank. That sucked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I have a 24x24x18 rimless cube(1" on viewable sides) made by James. The back is 3/4" with an external overflow. If you make the external overflow HUGE it will add strength to the 3/4" wall. My overflow is about half of the back wall, and has ZERO bow at all. The 3/4" is nice because I can run my Tunze nanostream with the magnet. For your situation I would probably go acrylic. Just use the white scrapers that James sells and a algae pad. It's super easy on a rimless tank, no worries about scratches that way. The only scratches I have put into my 90g 1/2" acrylic tank were from trying to use a magnet(with new pad), and from the fish trap I tried to wedge into the front of the tank. That sucked! Nice tank Jon! So... do you think the issue with the rimless acrylic is the bowing? That would makes some sense but would think the thickness would alleviate most of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralreefaquarist Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 i saw marks tank in person at waves which i believe the one joel made and i will say it did look top notch. i would go glass, id rather pay an extra thousand plus for glass or not have the tank, in my opinion it is just a matter of time before an acrylic tank looks [language filter] a NYC road map no matter what you do. glass(rock2) starphire(rock2)(rock2)(rock2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Salvador Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I am glad I am not the only one having this problem. Ok so here is what i really really want. 30x30x24 glass rimless tank with an external overflow, 3 starphire sides, black silicon and a couple holes in the back for the return. I got a very nice quote from Joel at Waves, everywhere else either won't do the external overflow or the tank will be around 2k shipped. Not interested in spending that much for just the tank. So i began getting quotes on acrylic. Being made from acrylic will require 1" thick acrylic. And I rec'd a very nice quote from James on it. I'm lucky that both of these are local and i can avoid shipping. This is where problems creep into play. Being rimless and the size of the tank I cannot get a warranty on the acrylic tank. I would like to use a couple vortechs as my sole water movement. The maximum thickness these pumps work with is 3/4". That would rule out acrylic. Joel just started making tanks and I have only seen pictures of one tank he has made. Not knocking Joel in anyway here the tank i've seen pictures of looks to be top notch, but I'm leery that even a simple error would turn my prized possession into, well you know. Not to mention what it would do to my home. I am remodeling the whole area where my tank will go and all that work would be ruined. I thought about making the tank myself out of glass. This would save me some $$ but again a small error and........I think I would be more apt to make an error than Joel would being the first tank build for me. I like glass because its harder to scratch than acrylic. I'm interested in acrylic because its so much lighter. UGH! So i'm stuck! Maybe i just need a nudge one way or the other but its a pretty big investment. Ideas????? I’ve been having the same problem. GLASS or Acrylic for my 36x36x21 tank. I have gotten a quote from Joel and James on tank. The price I got from James... Well I guess I don’t need to say how much but you guys understand how great his work is. I got a quote also from Joel and it’s a very nice price for what I want. Let me just say, that I am very impress with the craftsmanship Joel has when it comes to building his glass tanks. BRAVO Joel. I myself have a big problem choosing James for acrylic or Joel for the glass tank. My problem is I want a glass tank but for the price and weight glass sounds a bit too much. So I’ve been looking more at acrylic. Till the other night when I came across this website. Looks like they been doing this for a long time and the prices is great for what you get and shipping is not much when it comes to shipping a glass tank across country. Here is the website and I hope I was able to help in some way. www.glasscages.com By the way…. I have chosen to go with glass, but most likely I will give my business to Joel is this place doesn’t call me back with the full price with everything that I want. Take care and have a great weekend. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 Frank we are in the same boat! (laugh) I did get a quote from glasscages. They will not do my external overflow. I won't lose the real estate inside the tank for an internal overflow that is my #1 priority. I want only 2 vortechs in the tank and that is all. Besides their quote was about 300 more than the one Joel gave me. I also got quotes from Aquarium Obsessed and am awaiting one from A.G.E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 i saw marks tank in person at waves which i believe the one joel made and i will say it did look top notch. i would go glass, id rather pay an extra thousand plus for glass or not have the tank, in my opinion it is just a matter of time before an acrylic tank looks [language filter] a NYC road map no matter what you do. glass(rock2) starphire(rock2)(rock2)(rock2) That makes me feel a bit better. Thanks for mentioning it. It would be nice to get up there and check out a couple he's made. I think thats the best idea. Gotta make some time for sure. I know he took a lot of time when he started and redid a tank a few times till he got it right. So he knows what he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAD Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I would only have a glass tank built for myself. Other people might be able to be perfect when doing the rock work and while cleaning it every single time. I know for a fact I would eventually get some scratches in it, then it would draw my attention every time I looked at the tank. That would be the last straw, then I would be 100% crazy instead of just 99% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 I can relate to that. There is 1 scratch in the glass on my tank. I see it everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 GLASS GLASS GLASS(laugh) Miles I would only go with glass again. I was really looking at the 3 foot tank Pat had at SWF built buy James also but could not get myself to get an acrylic tank. I have a real nice glass tank starfire even waiting to get wet but would love to have a bigger footprintDOH! If this is your dream tank do it once and do it right. Plus like you said you are re doing your house and I know how that isDOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I've been photographing a lot of tanks lately. Yesterday, I visited TAD and shot his 34gal glass cube... it was SO nice shooting a glass tank for a change. Every acrylic tank I've shot has scratches; maybe not big ones all the time, but little ones that show up when the subject is close to the front tank wall. They screw up the pic every time. Aaaaand, they do make a difference in the overall view-ability of the tank; they scatter light and reduce the sharpness of the tank. After a month or three, glass tanks still look great while acrylic tanks have started to show some wear and tear. For me, it's a no-brainer. Glass is the only way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I have had both glass and acrylic tanks and I would only do glass at this point. I would love to replace my scratched up tank for a glass one but the glass would be to heavy for the stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kshack Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I have a glass tank made by Glass cages. My advise would be to get glass and have Joel make it. You can come up and see my tank if you like. 68X36X25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 I have a glass tank made by Glass cages. My advise would be to get glass and have Joel make it. You can come up and see my tank if you like. 68X36X25. pm sent Thanks everyone, i really appreciate your input. Glass is what i've wanted and you are right i should get what i want! (laugh) i'm going to start pricing some glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Starfire. Definitely. Get what you want. Just be patient and keep selling those frag packs. You will have the wad soon enough for what you really want. You are a successful reefkeeper. You have the patience to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdadof2 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I will never own another acrylic tank - scratches too dang easily. Can't even clean at the gravel line without worrying about scratching it! I purchased my starphire cube from Joel at Waves, and if you are having doubts about his competency and skill...let me assure you those are not warranted concerns. Joel is very good at what he does and he has built more than a few tanks - he is not a rookie. He was building a large tank in the shop a few weeks ago. Joel stands by his product and is great to work with. I would not hesitate to buy another tank from him, I love the cube he built and the craftmanship he put into it. One question - why go with multiple vortech pumps instead of a heavy hitter like a reeflo? I have a closed loop with a reeeflo dart on it and will never have the need to put a powerhead in my tank - keeps it clean and easy and I can have an insane amount of flow As for the weight of the tank..my thought is I move it once to put it in place and don't move it again (yeah, pick your spot in the house with care)! Feel free to come over and take a look at my tank next time you are up this way, always nice to talk to another reefer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undrtkr_00 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I saw that big tank that Joel's working on Friday... looks pretty good, though I just glanced at it. Also, I believe he built the display cube in the shop (not the one by the front door, but over by the register). So, you can see some of his craftsmanship right in the store. I think that considering you are leaning toward a custom glass cube (almost) with external overflow, Joel is the perfect candidate. Even better that he is so close by. Regarding the guarantees, I think you will have to choose whether rimless or a guarantee is more important to you. If rimless is really important, maybe it's worthwhile to review your home insurance policy to make sure that reef tank explosions are covered and that the value of your remodel is properly accounted for. DOH! Anyone ever heard of insuring your livestock? I gotta think it's been done before, but doubt homeowner's insurance would cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 If you can insure a tiger you should be albe to insure your fish, I would think. I imagine you would have issues with the corals though. Although that may be something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pledosophy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Joel is my friend so take this for what you will. When he first started building tanks I went into the shop, saw a system, and said how sweet he was. He pointed out every flaw. Some of which I could not see. The he told me how he was going to take the tank apart and redo it. I couldn't even see everything he was talking about. He redid it. Then again. Joel is a perfectionist. I respect him for it, because I am the same in my work, but honestly I don't even see everything he is talking about, I've been in the hobby for 8 years. I have purchased other things from Joel that he has special ordered for me. If ever there was a problem, Joel would fix it. Like literally take the skimmer apart, repair the seals, switch out a pump, etc, etc, etc an hour later I was good to go. Point being Joel stands behind his deals. I wouldn't worry about it. When I do business with Joel, there is no worries, he always stands behinds his deal beyond what most others would. Joel putting Waves up for sale, makes me want to buy everything I plan on getting "soon" so I can get it while he is still there. He stands behind stuff that much IME. Beyond that glass over acrylic every time, especially if all the holes are coming predrilled. I have been so careful with all of my acrylic tanks, I swear my 34g has scratches from sand that gt caught in the flow. Seriously. Andy, I know what you speak of. Hence you never see pictures of my acrylic tanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks Kevin. I asked Joel if he will still be building tanks after Waves sold and he said as long as there isn't some sort of noncompete then he will continue. So its good to know he'll still be doing it if i ever need something. My dad has a good friend who owns a glass shop. I'm having him get me a quote on the glass since i'll be getting it for cost. After that i just need to work stuff out with Joel. Things are on the move!!! I really do appreciate everyones input here. It has helped me out more than you might think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Glad this thread gave you some clarity Miles! Sounds like you have a good plan in place to get your dream tank... keep us posted so we can continue to be green with envy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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