reefgeek84

Besides having a great ability to take lives the Concealed Weapon is also a great deterrant. It makes people think about what they are about to do because they can now be harmed.

I agree 100%...If everyone could steal and get away with it, alot more people would be stealing...but the fear of not knowing if security is watching either on cameras or undercover, detours alot of people from doing it...Same thing here, if more people were armed and responsible about it, I think alot of people would think twice before they do this sort of thing.

Again I do not think that more are guns are the complete answer, I think education is another major factor in it.

A of mine cousin died due to a parent leaving a loaded shotgun at home locked in there bedroom, kids have a way of finding cool things and showing them off to others, as someone who has not experienced it I don't expect you to understand but guns do kill and of course some moron is usually at the other end of the trigger.

 

I lost another friend years back in the Rodney King thing, we came home from a band practice and he pulled up to a stop light behind a car in the passenger seat, the people in front backed into him, then a car pulled up from behind and blocked them in, he was robbed of there equipment then shot 6 times after firing a gun, the driver was shot 55 times both where good friends.

 

My step father was killed with his own gun a few years back after being wrested to the floor in his OWN HOUSE as well, carrying a CWP would not of saved him, I dont think the permit is bulletproof. I could go on and these are not stories, there true as true can be.

 

I personally have been held at gunpoint twice by a shotgun and once with a pistol, and shot at while hunting once, these experiences change your views on guns, again something I don't expect you to understand without experiencing it, regardless of how you may feel about your friends you look up to and how protected you feel with one beside you.

 

I would not be surprised at all if you carried a permit (even though that really means nothing other than your not totally an idiot and dont have a record) and where to attempt to stop that guy, fire a shot and guess who the next guy 20' away will look at when they draw there weapon, you the guy aiming at him. Good luck.... Its a great idea, really, but there is just to many stupid people out there. I consider myself a very intelligent gun owner but most people just are not responsible enough to own them, or simply dont understand what pulling the trigger can do to a person, if not themselves the people around them that one day get access to it are a big danger.

 

I still have guns and collect a few, I go clay pigeon shooting as well but I can't simply walk around with a loaded weapon, more people get shot by there own guns these days. Guns are a great responsibility, and most people simply are not cut out for it regardless if they are trained or not.

 

Go get your CWP and carry for about 4 months, there really a PITA, I could see if there was real community issues and theft was high and you where really distressed, or threatened but for me, my weapons stay home, unloaded and locked up I can fight my fights without guns. What Im trying to say after blabbing FOREVER is, If you feel safe with a gun I think your living with false safety, and I would be willing to wager your more in danger with it than without. However I am 100% sure you will not see it that way for years to come, if not ever.

I completely resent the fact that you are up on your ivory tower, telling me "guns really do kill people" step off your high horse and down from that tower...sorry that is it for the personal shot, but that is ridiculous.

I am sorry for your loses...I have known two people to be shot and killed, so I do have a feeling of what it feels like...They were not family members so I do not know it on that degree...

That is the wrong mentality...I never said it was about winning a fight...I said I am not sure if I feel safer with a gun or not, but it is stories like this that make me consider it.

as for parents leaving guns around the house and kids playing with them, I truly feel that is a lack of parenting not a childs fault..so that is an issue that needs to be addressed as parents are not being responsible for teaching their children to respect a gun and their fault for leaving a loaded gun around the house where their kids can access it...not the guns fault. I would have never in a million years just picked up a gun to play with it, because I was taught that is not what you do...

You seem to blame guns for people doing things with them...that makes no sense to me...should we out law knives cause people kill people with them. Maybe we should out law cars, because there are stupid people behind the wheel and they kill people?

You take everything I say and put your own thought on it...I never said I look up to these people, so that it is your own imaginations concoction. I said that they are examples of how it should be and I believe how most people are. I like alot of people's fish tanks and think they are good examples of tanks, but I do not look up to them...

I do believe that everyone needs to be taught about gun safety... like driving, there is a reason we do not have anything like the autobahn here in the states...because we do not respect driving, we are merely taught to pass a test. Imagine people knowing their limits and their car's limits and driving a on a road that has no speed limit...man a crazy thought. Speaking of this, I was watching a thing on HD (cause I love my HD) it was about drifting and one of the guys is from Sweden and he teaches kids about cars and different things that can happen driving, lets them get a little swirly to show them how it feels and how quickly it can get out of control. He said he does this because in the states we are merely taught to pass a test, but are not taught to respect the roads and cars that we drive and others are driving.

In more danger with it or with out...that is all subjective...I know many people who have needed to draw gun and it 99.9% saved their life!

I digress however...You have said your peace and I have said mine...one of those things were I do not think we will convince each other wise...I think you have brought up very valid points and made me sit and think some, which is why I love this sort of dialog and I started this thread.

Would love to hear what others think.

How do you see it working out in a situation like that?

Because I know what it takes to get a CWP and I know the people who have them...they are trained like cops...trust me, 99.9% of people who have a CWP, would not just start shooting randomly and from afar...that I know for sure. I guess my thinking is if these people have no idea who is carrying them and they open fire it could be a person who is close behind them and would have a clean shot. Also, if people knew there were many trained citizens carrying guns, I think it would detour people from doing what they do. I agree with you if we are talking about people just having a gun, but it is a totally different case with CWP's and I guess I need to make that more clear, that I am talking about people getting a CWP.

More people with guns would deter violence in public' date=' however it would also have lots of repercussions, like kids getting access to guns, accidental shootings/firing of arms, what could have been a verbal dispute becomes a shooting victim. there is a large amount of people out there that simply just should not have guns, this kind of tips the ice berg on the subject of teachers with guns in school. In one way it sounds good, but in reality, the few occurences where it would help I can think of 100 where it would be deadly.[/quote']

 

I am not so sure...I know a few people with CWP's and they are super, super responsible with their guns and they have children, who have friends who come over and they have the gun in place where it is not possible for them to get it. My father has many guns in the house, same with my grandfather (both have a CWP) and I have been raised around them and have up most respect for them and have been taught do not point the gun at anything you do not intend to shoot, and I know the damage a gun could cause, I knew it at the age 4 and would never tempt to play with it or anything of that nature...I also know kids that are raised around guns and this is their same mentality.

Yes, there are always two sides to the problem.

Just imagine this mall shooting: one guy starts shooting and 25 citizens with a CWP pull out their guns and start getting involved.

Within minutes, everyone will have lost track of who are the good guys or the bad guys. Chaos ensues...

I do not see it this way...

I would build a baffle with teeth where the return pump sits to keep the sand out of that section' date=' very similar to what I built for my refugium[/quote']

 

I was just going to say the same thing...LOL.(clap)

Well, the more people carry guns, the more crazies will be able to just start shooting whenever they please.

Not sure that more guns= less violence.

 

In a crowd, even the police can't just start randomly shooting, for fear of hurting innocent bystanders.

People would need to get trained to use their guns and I'm not sure I'd trust everyone and their brother/sister with a gun.

In fact, I know a few people I'd stay far away from, if anyone could carry a concealed weapon.

The crazies you talk about shooting, has nothing to do with CWP, those people that shoot do not have a CWP, they either steal gun or just register one, because the process to get a CWP is super intensive. I do see your point.

The CWP process is a very grueling process, not just anybody can get a gun...trust me.

I just read another story about a man who opened fire in a shopping mall killing 8 people, injuring 5 others...2 critically. They found a note that said he wanted "to go out in style."

Do you think if more citizens carried guns these people could be stopped in their tracks and help prevent innocent lives from being lost. Some people might not notice right away, but once a couple of shots were fired, someone who could have been carrying a gun could have stopped him, before they got to 13 shots off...

I think that if more people carried guns, this stuff would get stopped, before it escalated like the many recent shootings. I am considering getting my CWP, because there are too many crazy people who want to commit suicide, but decide they want to take people's lives with them, cause they want "to go out in style". I think we as a society have gone soft and sue happy and these crazy people know this, and they can walk into a school, mall or just on the street and shoot a bunch of people cause they know we will not do anything...We as a society will not do anything, because we have gone soft and people are fearful that if they to help and take a bad person out, they can get sued by that person for a number of things. I mean police are not pulling the trigger and getting shot themselves, for fear of someone suing. Do I think we need to be a cut throat society? No, not at all...but we need to start standing up for ourselves and not letting these stupid a$$ people do this stuff.

I am not going to get into these people's child hoods, because that becomes discussing parenting and that is an entire new can of worms...

But I would really like to hear people's thoughts on this...of course we need to keep it flame free...(rock2)

Does anyone else have any thoughts...Nyles help was great, but would love to hear other people's input.

OK that makes sense' date=' if it was me and this was an experiment I would add a return pump for the two tanks and t-off, or you can gravity feed to the other and no T, there small enough as long as the water flow is decent you should not have an issue, leave the current system as is as long as your not expecting to do DRAMATIC chilling on the two small systems. more flow the better, it will help create a more even temperature through the three systems. This will work great as long as the smaller tanks are not creating to much heat, a little is fine and it will circulate to the sump and get caught into the chiller line.[/quote']

 

So go with my first idea... Of draining the top tank into the bottom tank and then the bottom tank drains into the main display sump? and then an extra return pump that returns the water to the top tank? also what do you think a good number for flow would be?

So three tanks on one sump? Where is the chiller inline at? on the return?

Yes 3 tanks into one sump...the chiller is "T" into the return line, to the tank, and the return from the chiller runs into the sump...

What size are your two tanks that you want to hook together? Could you draw a picture so I can see what your thinking?

The monti tank would be 24x24x12h... and the frag tank I think would be like 18-20x18-20x10-12h...

I will see if I can get a pic drawn up sometime today...

The prelim idea sounds decent' date=' I wonder what the temp flux would be? To reduce tempurature flux you could t-off the return or just use two return pumps and go to both tanks and overflow both to one sump, this would make for a more balanced temp range as long as both your return lines to the sump are far enough away from the heater they mix well first to create an even temp. Just a thought.[/quote']

 

Yeah my concern is temp flux...cause I will not be running 400w halide over the other tanks, probably 250's...so I am not sure how that would work out...

 

so you think both draining into the sump with an extra internal return pump "t"'d going to the 2 tanks?

How about share yours first and we all go from there? At least then the ideas coincide with each other. any pics of the existing system or how you plan to do the return?

I was thinking of two ways...

1- Have the top tank drain into the lower tank and then the lower tank drain into the main display sump. The return line is split and returns into the top tank.

2- Just have the 2 tanks drain into the sump and then return the water via the return line.

I am not sure if I should just use a separate internal pump to return the water...

I personally would keep the systems separate but thats just me' date=' I like to think of a qt as a place to put new items/frags and watch them, if they have parasites it would be easier to deal with in just a simple QT tank than have them leach into the main tank. Just a thought.[/quote']

I am not a QT guy, never have been. I dip all corals before they go in my tank it has seemed to work for me. Plus I do not have want to purchase a bunch more equipment...If this is something that just will not work, then I will not do it...but if I can make it work, I think it would be awesome

So, I am wanting to set up two tanks...I want to set up a shallow encrusting monti tank and a small frag tank... I was going to just build a creative shelf thing to conceal my chiller, but got to thinking that maybe I could make it a stand and have two tanks, one smaller one down below (for frags) and then one above it that would be my shallow encrusting monti tank...I know that my chiller, and skimmer are big enough to handle an extra 40-50 gallons of water...I have some ideas, but multiple heads are better then one, so I would like to get some ideas of others might do it...So lets hear the ideas...

Ran across this tonight. You can supposedly get a free replacement Stainless Steel shaft and a concentrator with a fish guard. Mine came with both and haven't even tried it without the concentrator since I liked the idea of a fish guard....lost enough due to sucking stupidity with my guard down so to speak. You have to use that to keep the fish guard on as it slips over the end of your pump and snaps into place, no need to remove pump from system to install.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1241399&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

This was a sweet post!!! Thanks Ron, I emailed them and I had them super fast, they shipped 1st class and there were no questions asked, and they gave me all I needed...which consisted of 2 #3's, 2 #1's, and 4 #4's...I have not attached them yet, but it is really nice to have...

Hey, have not had this thread in action in a while...I am in there for a bit right now, so if you are bored come on in...

Yeah, sorry...really bad on the update the dual set up has been sold...

Enough!

 

Everyone has a say in this club, whether you are a paid member or not. The membership monies go towards keeping this website running, among other things. The servers and software are NOT free. The labor, however, is.

 

Please, end the verbal altercations and return to your respective corners. Enough said.

There are no verbal altercations...So people can not have a discussion and/or a disagreement? Same old stuff... I have no problems with Nyles and nothing he said I took offense to nor that was stereotypical flaming...not sure why he and I and anyone else for that matter, can not discuss something or merely defend our points of view...

as for what the money goes to...I understand this, that was never a question and I never said that this was a club for profit...my guess is that the membership fees do not always cover the cost of the great things that this club does and that some people step up to make up the difference.

If there where no non-paying members and they where discouraged ALL THE TIME there would be no paying members, if you can call $20 a payment, I cant buy lunch for $20 with my family.

This WHOLE site can't be held accountable for a few members that have made it clear they don't like you. As for payment again, I don't care if you pay or not, its the justification for payment that has me baffled.

 

I pay the fee for a simple reason, its not because it GIVES ME something (I cant get a discount from our sponsors because of reasons I wont discuss here), its not because people listen to me if Im a member, and its not because I want to sell things. Its simply because if I dont do my part to help PNWMAS exist I have no place to point all the people that are getting in the hobby, this in turn causes something else you may realize.. Lots of inexperienced people trying out the hobby without a clue, like cycling a tank with damsels, like running a coral tank with bio balls, adding predators to corals tanks, adding seabae's to pc lighting tanks, I could go on and on, my point is this site is for education, and I due my part in this hobby by donating my time and money to a place that enables FREE information to those that know little if not nothing in the hobby and provide an outlet for education, without these donations this site would not exist and lots of people will continue to buy things and mishandle them, I don't know what you think this site means but its an educational site providing YOU a place to get and share info, in turn reducing the loss of marine life.

 

And the most important part to me is if I had not found this site that WE pay for I would never be in this hobby to begin with, this and other site gave me the confidence to move on with plans of new and better tanks. For that I am thank full, and $20 is worth every cent.

 

Hope this clarifies my point. With no "Poking" intended.

I did not say it is a constant that people are belittled about not paying, but it does happen from time to time and that is just to much and it should not happen at all...

That is fine...you want to pay for it, more power to you... I simply do not want to pay for it, that is plain and simple. Again you are missing my point and only seeing what you want to see, I do not think that being a member gets you any more credit on the site...again I did it to prove a point, because what was being told to me was that if you were a paying member your thoughts would get more respect...and I knew it would not, so I paid for the membership and it did nothing in that sense, which proved my point. I did not want to pay the money before then and I do not want to pay the money now, not for any reason other then the simple fact that I do not want to pay for it...

I guess you and I differ, I was into this hobby, well before I found this site or any other site, I have had some form of salt tank, since I was about 6, so I guess I do not have the same feelings you do. I never said that it was this whole site, there are quite a few people who do not like me and that is totally cool, that has nothing to do with the site and I do not hold it accountable...but I do think there is alot of unnecessary politics in this site...

You help out by paying money...I help out by donating and helping people out on the boards as well as chat...

Just wondering. It seems like you might have taken the comments from Nyles out of context Brandon. Their might have been some personal pokeing at you but it was pretty subtle. I would hope the club would not discourage people who are not official-"paying" members from visiting or saleing items on this board. If that we're true then Joel would have gotten the 33gal. cube I sold you awhile back, and I would not have got the awesome frag of the Meteor shower from you the other day.

I don't pay any attention to the politics of the club, nor do I pay any dues. Did you notice? No membership thingy under my name LOL? So my opnion here probably counts for squat! But I do appriceate this board and what it offers from a educational standpoint. Their might be some cancer somewhere internally but who knows? For the most part I agree that us locals should do what we can to support this board. I just don't think anybody should feel pressured or belittled because they are not a member, but frequent the forums as so many of us do. JMO.............

I do not think I took anything Nyle's said out of context, people take shots at me all the time, cause I go against the grain and challenge people on this board. I am a bit extreme in some of my approaches, but oh well...I have calmed down quite a bit, but again I am sure that goes unnoticed as well, but I bet if you ask most people, I am still the trouble maker that l have always been...Like I said, the people in charge are al ot better then other people who were in charge...and the people who are board members and in office now, I really think have great plans,ideas and intentions for this club and give it their heart...

Your opinion does matter and so does everyone else's, whether they post once a month and are non-paying or they are paying members, visit every meeting and post on a daily basis and that is how it should be. Your right no one should be belittled or made to feel guilty about paying for a membership...

It just frustrates me you complain all the time about how you get short handed about treatment' date=' then you complain that your not getting your moneys worth out of a not for profit organization (I will point out that work for free), I personally could care less if your a member or not but I do care how you justify your fee, paying a fee does not entitle you to an opinion, thats just not common sense. It does not matter, I doubt anyone understands my frustration but your just going to have to grow up. Im done ranting, this is a forum if you want to talk in person thats fine, but I simply cant have this conversation here, my words are not understood by you and I dont think I clearly understand yours either. Lets just leave it at that. I dont mean to lash out and thats not my intentions but I do feel you use this site as a tool for your own good, and for a reason that this site was never intended for, I think you have the wrong impression of what PNWMAS stand for and what the future goals are. I apologize if I come off as rude.[/quote']

 

You missed my point completely... I never said I get short handed by any treatment or lack there of...I do not like when the holier then thou attitude comes up in people who pay, because someone else chooses not to pay. I will try to dig up thread where a few board members and paying members, pretty much said that to have a thought or opinion on what should happen with the site, that you need to pay or else your thoughts do no matter. I was not the only one that took it that way alot of non-paying members also felt very offended by it. So I bought a card to prove that it does not matter whether you are a paying member or not, the board members (at that time) would not take you any more seriously, like they claimed. Like I said this was the mentality of the old board members...I am not sure why you think I use this site only for my own devices? If that was the case, I would not chime in on people's questions and offer help where I can and if this was just for my own selling thread not sure why I would even offer to donate anything.

 

As for you being rude, not at all...you and everyone else is entitled to their own thoughts and discussion is a very good thing.

All that over a question over how to empty a mailbox? You all on steroids or what?

Nope not all...it just shows how a lot of the people are on this forum, that if you do not pay you are simply taking advantage of the club and I hate that mentality...

I will not be going to the meeting but if someone comes by and wants to get a frag of my acro florida, I would be happy to donate one or two to the club...but again, it depends if someone wants to swing by.

I can't talk to those that cant comprehend things.

Enlighten me then...

As for someone that uses the site for selling' date=' as you just comented, thats not what this is for go to to craigslist Also goes to show where your mind is, about yourself, shame.[/quote']

I never said that is all I use this site for...I have contributed to this site besides filling up the classified section.

 

I for one expect nothing from this site' date=' I give way more than I ever receive and Im not looking for any handout or to justify the money that I spend for a $20 a year membership. [/quote']

I do not expect anything either...I just really do not want to pay for a forum, cause that is all I really use this for. I offered to donate a tank to the club that I could have gotten money out of, but I wanted to contribute to the cause of "tanks for teachers", but I guess that is me being selfish as you claim and only on here to sell things.

Those are the kind of people that just simply need not come to this site. Good luck in the hobby.... Im sure you will have better luck in it than other things.

I have helped people on this site as well as gotten help, that is why I come to this site and why lots of other people come here and do not pay...there is nothing wrong with that...Why don't you make the club private then, if people who do not pay are on here?