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Vancop

Fustrated and Confused ??

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If the rocks were coppered they'll never be safe in a full blown reef and always a possibilty of one day realeasing a toxic amount and wipe your system out of inverts it would be worth the money in the long run to replace the rocks in my opinion you have a time bomb waiting to happen again if you dont replace.

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I was going to use a few used tanks for my reef build but don't know the history of the tanks, so because of this thread I ordered new tanks.

 

I appreciate you bringing this topic up and hope you get your issue resolved.

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tanks dont hold the copper the substrate does as coral sand and rock absorbs it I've used tanks that at one time had been coppered with no problems but everything else was only good for fish only system.

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tanks dont hold the copper the substrate does as coral sand and rock absorbs it I've used tanks that at one time had been coppered with no problems but everything else was only good for fish only system.

 

 

What about the sealant?

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What about the sealant?

 

never been a issue it doesn't absorb enough I have 5 tanks right now that are full blown reefs with delicate sps that have been running for years with no issues.

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tanks dont hold the copper the substrate does as coral sand and rock absorbs it I've used tanks that at one time had been coppered with no problems but everything else was only good for fish only system.

 

Yup, never had a problem and used a couple that were treated with copper for quite a while and they did great as reefs! Just keep the rock for a fish only system and start over with fresh rock and sand IMO.

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+1 on Garrett's post. New rock and sand may be your only way out. I would, and this may be disputted, but I would test to see if that is indeed your problem before dumping all of it though.

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Copper test kits are enroute....if the kits test 0 copper....is it safe to say the problem is not copper related? I thought i understood that copper will be an issue at levels lower then what these kits can test for??

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most test wont test for the amounts that are toxic to inverts there mainly designed for the medical dosages so you know whats safe for your fish or quarantine if you know for a fact this tanks sand and rock was treated why risk it for a few dollars?

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After you figure out what's going on with copper, you need to get your CA/ALK/Mag, down to NSW levels.

 

CA-400ppm

Alk-8dkh

Mag-1350ppm

 

Try a different kit for Nitrate, come in to SWF and we'll test your water with Salifert kits.

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krux and garrettm85 are on the money with this. copper at these levels most likely will not test out. poly filter may take a while to show if the levels are super, super low but will work perfectly for this. this "is" your test kit, unfortunately. i know how frustrating this can be. anything related to the original purchase or use in this aquarium like rocks, sand, tubing, or plastic, pumps, powerheads, and filters should be tossed. they are made of porous material.

 

the (once live) rock works similar to carbon and other medias (carbon,phosphate,nitrate cuprisorb), this porous media is able to capture metals and toxins down to microns for removal, this is how/why live rock cultivates our boilogical (good bacterial) filter bed that we need to establish in our aquariums.... when i was younger and worked in aquarium ind. we would NEVER use aquariums that had copper in them at any point in time for our inverts or coral tanks. this shop will also have known this. basic retail industry knowledge. you obviously have a problem with this store? i once had a spare used glass tank, it gave me the exact same problems. animals crawling out of their shells, moving slow, and corals not opening or worse, dying and melting on intro. if your aquarium silicone is no longer clear and has a light colored tint its from metal. it will retain and release it over time. light yellow or brown. lf blue, green, or pink its from other meds and will not cause any issues to you. on a positive note your water is fantastic, well water or spring water is perfect for aquariums unless man has damaged it with runoff from a toxic dump site? do use carbon and phosphate remover for safety. next the algae and diatoms are a positive sign, studies have shown these will absorb metals albeit on a smaller scale, like hemp plants are used specifically to absorb toxins from a nuclear accident. google chernobyl and hemp....and... diatom/algae absorption of oil spills in the ocean. i hope this helps and dont discourage you. sounds like everything you are doing is absolutely well done. i just pulled 3 rocks, about 10lbs from my tank im letting dry. you can have it if it will help after you solve your problem. im in vancouver as well.

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First off....Thanks all for your assistance and support !!

 

I received the test kits ...Seachems copper tests kit, as well as a new silicates test kit, and performed numerous tests...to include the 90 gal ( which is known to have had copper ) my Tap water ....Water from the DI and the water in my 125 gal ( filled with the DI only water. the results...

 

90 gallon trace amount ...meaning reading was 0 but water clarity was not as good as the DI water tested. highest end of scale on silicates 25+

 

125 gal 0 and clear water quality highest end of scale on silicates 25+

 

Tap water lots of copper !! verry dark blue color +25 silicates

 

DI water from Tap .....0 copper crystal clear clarity +25 silicates

 

My opinion / suggestion .....stopped washing filters in tap water .....considering a UV light to assist with silicates ( thanks Woody for suggestion ) and the 90 will become a FOWLR tank. The 125 tank is testing good water ...and I think I might...just might have found the solution to the FS / Xenia delimia... Iodide.....not Iodine....I added good dose of Iodide to the tank a few days ago...the the FS is half open...more then it has been in a month. Fingers crossed!

 

Special Thanks to Sea Horse for donating DI water for me to start Flushing " my tanks with. And to all for the advise !!

 

Will contiinue to update

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I also use iodide but it comes in the kent coral excel that I use sometimes. I ad lugols iodine about 3 drops every 9 days. Just because the corals are stimulated and open up nice and full please dont overdo the iodide. I dont use the kent stuff all the time. I sometimes go months then will pickup some and use it. Its good stoff and always makes my corals grow. Xenia really like it...again its the iodide in it that the xenia like but it also has amino acids and such.

 

Let me know if I can help you out. I am in Vancouver also.

 

Jay

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If it were me and I bought this from an LFS' date=' I would be back in the store daily demanding that they do something about it. As I understand it, and I may be wrong but, once copper is in the tank and/or rocks, it's NEVER coming out. [b']Even if you replace all of the rock, the copper gets into the silicone and will never come out.[/b] You will not be able to keep anything but fish in that tank. This is the risk you take buying a used system. IMHO this LFS should have disclosed this before loading it into your truck. Unless they are totally clueless, they had no business selling this to you if they knew your were going to set up a reef system.

 

I am going to 2nd this statement. I have said it before in severall other post's. When looking at a used tank, the history is cridical. If copper was ever used, run. This happens a lot when people convert from fresh to salt as so meny treatments are copper based. The silicone is a sponge. What was the intent of your setup. Reef? Is this what the LSF understood? If fish only there is no problem.

 

You said you where aware of the copper from the store. So you where told about it? Was there a misunderstanding as to what you wanted to setup?

Was the rock and all with the setup from the start?

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I was new to the hobby when I bought the set-up and knew nothing about copper and its destructive values when I bought the system, and was only told of it's use as I was leaving when I asked questions regading using carbon in the canister filter. I believe the direct quote was, " you are going to want to run copper pretty heavy for a few weeks to remove the copper that was in that system, but it will go away". And yes, the rocks ( 80 lbs ) came with the set-up. I used new sand as I was told the old sand was no good. I believe it was a fish only tank as no mention of corals was made in the purchase.

 

As for the UV...I have read quite a bit regarding its use, and I can't explain in terms that would make since....basically it kills the live bacteria's that alage's thrive on. Would some good bacteria be killed in the process...most likely, however, all that I have read indicates that the benefits outweigh the bad, so its an option at this point. The high silicates are creating a brown alage / diatom problem in the tank. Walls and equiptment get covered pretty heavily after about 1 week if not wiped daily. This is not related to my copper problem..or inability to keep corals, just and added nusiance.

 

I dosed the Iodide again last night and not alot of difference this morning, but they are still about 1/2 open which is a plus in my book! The Xenia is still not happy, but I moved her a few days ago so allowing some adjustment time.

 

The RO water is still an option, but not sure its needed a this point yet. I hate the idea of having so much waste water, and my well water tested perfect for no PO4...not even a trace. I am waiting for a chance to get to town and going to have Addy Labs do a more accurate test of my water. Once I saw the copper levels in my tap water it started to concern me. I had 80% of the pipe and a new pump and motor installed about 2 yrs ag0 ( over 600 feet of pipe !! ) wondering if this incident caused a change in my water quality. I was thinking a few days ago and remembered that the pump people infomed me that I have standing water in the well at approx 16 feet....and if the well is 760 feet deep, then my water is a mix of the substrate for the entire depth? Journey to the Center of the Earth pops up!!

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AFAIK, there's no connection between UV and reducing silicates. UV can eliminate pathogens in the water, and help break down certain organic compounds (thus giving clearer, less yellow water). I've never heard of algae thriving from bacteria either; algae problems arise from excess nutrients in the water column (typically nitrates and phosphates).

 

Excess silicates can contribute to diatom problems, but UV isn't going to do much on that front IME. If you're on well water, there's lots of other stuff that can be getting into your water and causing trouble. Pesticides, fertilizers, etc. etc. Given that, I'm not sure your problems have anything to do with residual copper at all...

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