downhill_biker Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Every time I touch the water in my tank I get a slight shock. Once my hand is in the water it is fine, it just happens right when I first touch it. I know that there is leakage, or rather, diffusion? from powerheads and heaters, but how much is too much? Should I use a grounding probe? I have heard that it is better to not use one because it grounds the tank and allows the current to flow. But I have also heard that it is good to use one. Please help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael7979 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I used one this time around.......... don't know if it a good thing or bad thing. Tank has been up for 4'ish months. Never had the electrical feeling before but I thought with as much water as I have it couldn't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 You may have a bad heater or powerhead. I would get a voltage probe (multimeter) to test the voltage in the tank. Then unplug things one at a time to find which one is causing the leak. Once you isolate it to one or two items, get rid of them and replace them... I don't want to read about you in the obituaries next week. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 wow, my tank is very new, and so is my stuff. if i have to buy new stuff once a year because it is worn out i will have to find a new hobby, or design my own stuff that doesn't have these issues. i used my meter on it the other day, and got some voltage, but not much. i will do one at a time and see what the culprit is....i do have a GFCI so...dont worry about the obituary thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Post the results of the volt meter test. I am curious what is causing it. My bet is the heater. They tend to fail... When I first started I had a used heater that worked fine for about 9 months, then it started popping my GFCI every time that it kicked on... It made for a cold tank for a few days until I figured out what was causing the power to fail. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 wow' date=' my tank is very new, and so is my stuff. if i have to buy new stuff once a year because it is worn out i will have to find a new hobby, or design my own stuff that doesn't have these issues. i used my meter on it the other day, and got some voltage, but not much. i will do one at a time and see what the culprit is....i do have a GFCI so...dont worry about the obituary thing.[/quote'] The best way to test your tank for voltage is to place the positive probe in the tank, and the negative probe on the electric outlet screw (or a cold water pipe). This way it is grounded and you will get an accurate reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadams7 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I had this happen also about a year back...freaked me out! It ended up being a bad power head, and it took me reaching in my tank with a cut on my hand to feel it...just imagine how the poor fish felt! Anyways, I have been needing to get one of these ground probes, I am very interested to see what others opinions are on them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 will get my results monday, havent had time yet. thanks for the help and sorry for taking so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Ok so here are the results using my Fluke Digital VOM Meter, and they are puzzling, need help figuring them out. I have 2 powerstrips with individual switches for each plug. Total I have 31 volts, WOW!!! Unplug the right strip and get 4-5, unplug the left one and i get 25-26. Leaving the left one plugged in I switched off ever plug on the right one, and it drops none! Then I switch them back on, no change. Here's the kicker: I turn off my korallia 4 and the voltage jumps up to 41, what is going on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Sounds like you are experiencing failure on some level with your power strips. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 That is what I was thinking...but they are brand new from Joel at Waves. I just bought them at Christmas. I am going to play around some more and see what I get. I plugged the powerhead in a bowl and got really high readings, so that is out, my voltage is down to 5 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I would start unplugging stuff from the power strip one at a time testing after each item is unplugged, until you get a near zero or better yet, zero reading. Then you will at least know what exactly is causing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This may be very dumb idea but you could also check and make sure nothing plugged in is sharing ports. I mean nothing is plugged into 2 different outliets with one prong in each outlet. That would cause these kinds of issues or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanmike01 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This may be very dumb idea but you could also check and make sure nothing plugged in is sharing ports. I mean nothing is plugged into 2 different outliets with one prong in each outlet. That would cause these kinds of issues or worse. With todays outlets, I dont believe thats even possible.DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 i am looking into it more today. i put a return pump in the tank this morning to fill in for the bad korallia, and if fell off the glass and blew corals down everywhere and burried my acan garden in sand DOH! Everything seems to be ok, but i still need to figure out the whole deal with voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 well that sux. sorry to hear about the burried gardern there downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Ok so here are the results using my Fluke Digital VOM Meter, and they are puzzling, need help figuring them out. I have 2 powerstrips with individual switches for each plug. Total I have 31 volts, WOW!!! Unplug the right strip and get 4-5, unplug the left one and i get 25-26. Leaving the left one plugged in I switched off ever plug on the right one, and it drops none! Then I switch them back on, no change. Here's the kicker: I turn off my korallia 4 and the voltage jumps up to 41, what is going on here? Wow biker, this makes my head hurt! Question, when you were switching the the plugs on the right unit back on, did you do so one by one? That way, you should at least be able to identify the major culprit. Some of the varying voltages are confusing to say the least (including the increase you are seeing when you switch off the korallia) but it sounds like at least one device is leaking current into the tank and there may be something funky going on with one of the power strips as well. Unfortunately, it's been way too long since my physics classes to come up with a reasonable explanation for you. Any electricians out there??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 i am looking into it more today. i put a return pump in the tank this morning to fill in for the bad korallia' date=' and if fell off the glass and blew corals down everywhere and burried my acan garden in sand DOH! Everything seems to be ok, but i still need to figure out the whole deal with voltage.[/quote'] Try not to stress over it too much... everything electrical in your tank will generate an electrical field, even when there is no direct wiring in contact with the water. That is why the grounding probe is a good idea. The electric shock though, may be a leaky powerhead or other defective equipment. Many times salt spray can carry an electric charge over the surface of the hood into the tank, giving you a zap. Sorry, but I'm not an electrician. Perhaps Dave Durr (Barleycuda) can enlighten us some on this. I'm sending him a PM now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downhill_biker Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 I am questioning the grounding probe though...as long as the circuit isn't grounded it is just in the tank but doesnt flow, right? just potential energy... so nothing in the tank gets zapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Can you borrow a power strip of 2 from a friend out there and swap with yours, see if you experience same issue. Process of elimination is going to lead you to your resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barelycuda Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hello Curtis, You have answered your own question in your last post as to why you need a ground probe.... First let me say that I AM a fan of ground probes and have one installed in every system here. This is my opinion and I respect others for their reasons to not have one even though I do not agree. Let me just start off by saying that some people may disagree with my discussion and that is ok. That is why we read and post, to discuss ideas and make everyones tank more beautiful and safe. First lets look at what the purpose of a ground probe is. The main purpose of a ground probe is to eliminate the difference of potential between your tank and the grounding system of your house. When you said that you got shocked just for an instant right when you touched the water is a prime example of this. Once you have become the same potential as the tank the tingle went away. Now if you were to remain grounded and touch the tank the result probably would be different. To not have a path for stray voltage to return is in my opinion asking for a more serious problem to arise. What if you heater cracks but does not short out. Now you have the potential for up to 120 volts to be introduced into the tank and be waiting for someone with a different potential to ground to get shocked. I am not sure if many people understand that voltage does not kill you, amperage does. It only take as little as 20 milliamps (.020 amps) to put your heart into defibrilation. Typically gfci's will trip at around 5-7 milliamps. If you are grounded when you touch the tank the 120 volt potentilal will flow thru your body as current which is when it gets dangerous. Unfortunately most aquarium equipment only has 2 prongs which means that it is ungrounded. It is required to be double insulated but we all know that over time insulation will break down and failure will occur. Typically fish will not feel stray voltages in a tank. Any piece of equipment that is introducing voltage into a tank does so in a circular gradient. Kind of like dropping a rock in a swimming pool. The gradients extend outward from the source. The fish in the tank usually won't feel these as they are completely submerged and are too small to feel the difference in the gradient. It would be interesting to see you do absolutely nothing to your tank but add a ground probe and retake a reading 24 hours later. I am not saying that the source of the problems does not need to be found because it does only that I believe that you will not feel the tingle anymore. If a piece of equipment now begins to fail with a ground probe installed the gfci can function properly as there will now be a path back to ground. Anyone have different thoughts? Let's hear them. We all will benefit from this discussion as it affects everyone of us. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenthumb Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 How would you suggest grounding a tank? The concept it definitely new to me, but I understand the purpose after reading that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barelycuda Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You can purchase a ground probe at most of the saltwater stores in the area. They are pretty inexspensive and just plug into your plugstrip or whatever you plug your equipment into. Basically it is a titanium probe attached to a wire that plugs into your outlet. The probe will eliminate the difference of potential. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadams7 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Thank God for Barelycuda breaking this down for all of us! I really was puzzled by this for a while....gotta go get myself a ground probe now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barelycuda Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Trust me, it took me a little while to wrap my hands around this and I have been a licensed electrician for almost 16 years now I was just trying to simplify it so that everyone may understand it a little better. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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