Ever want to give up?

[sknoch78]

Okay, so I got through the red bug outbreak. It was fairly easy to conquer. Everything was on the mend for a few weeks, then all of the sudden things start looking worse. I have been monitoring and changing water regularly. All of my perams are perfect. I have been stumped as to what was going on. It started with my pink birdsnest, then I started having issue with my poclopora, then my caps and danae and now my acros. Tonight, I dug into the tank to try to get a better idea and I discovered flatworms. They are on the glass even. I am confused as I thought flatworms only ate acros, but it appears as though I will be losing all of my monties as well. If anyone has any ideas, I would greatly appreciate the input.

 

This really sucks as this was my frag/starter tank for my big tank. I had amassed a decent collection to go in the new tank and now it appears as though all is lost. At this point, I am just tempted to throw out the lot. I just don't know what to do. Looks like I may be starting over and treating everything in quarantine before it goes in the big tank. I guess it could be worse and I could be going through this on a much larger scale.

 

 

Shawn

[JManrow]

Salifert Flatworm Exit seems to be the best remedy around. Many of our LFS Sponsors carry this product. Works very fast!

[sknoch78]

Are these known to eat other things aside from acros?

[nu2reef-n]

Certain types of wrasses and dragonettes will eat flatworms. Don't forget murphies first aquarium law. "Any fish placed in your tank to perform a special function, won't."

[sknoch78]

Here are some photos of the carnage.

 

[Guest Ahbrit]

Angies a little upset about the monties. they were her favorites

[sknoch78]

I can assure you she is nowhere near as upset as I am. I would say I have learned a valuable, albiet expensive lesson in all of this. Always no matter what, inspect and treat all livestock prior to going into any tank. My last run at this taught me the importance of stability and husbandry, something I learned well. Unfortunetly, you can be extremely regimented on your husbandry but all it takes is an accidental introduction of a tainted specimen and the damage is done far to swiftly.

[JManrow]

The Flatworm Exit will kill all the flatworms usually within a few minutes. Be sure to read all the precautions about water changes, using carbon, etc. http://www.hobbyoutletsales.com/Salifert/from2006/Flatworm.pdf

[reefboy]

what were your tank param as far as cal,alk,ph,temp ive heard of these acro eating flat worms but ive never had them the only ones i had were photosythic type were easy to rid with the exit but to me your corals look to be receding due to water quality, have you seen the flat worms doing the deed ive never had to treat for red bugs but i here it can be tricky and its possible somthing chemicaly is in the water u cant test for thats affecting your sps im very wary of using dog heart worm medicine.

[steveweast]

I doubt your problems are AEFW (acro eating flatworms). AEFW are VERY hard to detect since they they replicate their acro host's color exactly.....and are essentially invisible even with a magnifying glass. The only way to detect their presence is to turkey baste the coral and see if anything blows off. AEFWs stay only on the acros.....but will lay eggs on nearby rocks....they will not be on the glass. AEFW will not touch a monti....but there is a monti eating flatworm that only eats montis....but again....they won't be on the glass. Flatworm exit WILL NOT affect these types of flatworms...lemisole will work....but is best used as a dip and has not been effective in a whole tank treatment.

 

If you have flatworms on the glass....then they are probably the harmless greenish/red type that are easily eliminated with flatworm exit. I have had the AEFW.....I was loosing a large stag for an unknown reason.....after blasting the branches with water, I notice several come off sending my wrasses into a feeding frenzy. I removed the colony....it's the only real control. Even under a magnifying glass....I couldn't see the flatworms....then I broke off a branch and placed it in fresh water....then dozens fell off. Because of their camoflage, their is no effective natural predator.

 

Because of your wide range of species affected, I'd look elsewhere for a cause....perhaps water quality or a temp spike....of the coral loss......unless you find the flatworms on the corals.....but, that would mean that you have several species of flatworms at once.

[sknoch78]

Well at this point, I have ditched a half dozen pieces as it did not appear they were savable. I want to thank everyone for there input and advice. I too thought I had a water quality issue and have been testing daily to try to address. I have yet to find anything seriously wrong, perams are listed below. Prior to this issue I was having trouble keeping alk and ph up but I have had that under control for a few weeks. In fact once I got all my perams stable seems to be when all of this started. I am using current Salifert tests, and have even replaced some just to be sure. As of now, I have ditched the worst of the bunch and did a large water change last night, and will do so every other day to hopefully rectify this unknown issue. I will also get some flatworm exit and see if that erradicates the flatworms.

 

Cal-425

alk-8.2

amoinia-0

nitrite-0

nitrate-0

phosphate-0

ph-8.1-8.3

magnesium-1450

 

Shawn

[impur]

I'm with Steve, i doubt AEFW are your problem. I currently have AEFW, but not the ones Steve described. Mine are a newer species, not sure of the relation though, something Borneman is currently working on. Mine are very tiny, visible with a mag glass at 12X magnification. They are black little string looking things, still very hard to see. I have never seen eggs. Start looking for bite marks on your corals if you really think these guys are the culprit. But i've had them for a solid 3 months, maybe more, but my carnage has declined for some reason. I haven't lost a coral for a few months after initially losing about 2 colonies and 5 frags. I dip in TMPCC at 2X strength. It kills the redbugs too, which i have as well :( It takes a good month or so for the AEFW to move back to that coral. I'm starting a QT procedure this weekend.

 

To give you an idea of how the AEFW damage progresses, here are a few pics.

 

 

 

This is after a month, still hanging on

 

Bite marks

 

 

I saved that frag, have done 1 dip in TMPCC so far about 6 weeks ago. Its back to full PE and grown an inch or so.

 

Good luck, i hope you can figure out the problem. I would lean toward phosphates. Did you do the interceptor treatment in the tank? I did 1 treatment in the tank and had all sorts of problems with water chemistry after that. All the death to the inverts (pods mainly) really throws things off.

[fly guy]

If you have flatworms eating your corals then i tend to disagree about them NOT being the aefw's. And if indeed they are......flatworm exit is inneffective against them. Pull out one of the most affected corals while it is still partially alive and take a powerhead and blow every nook and cranny in it in a SEPERATE container...a dark container will help see them...then inspect the coral itslef for eggs...the eggs ARE visible in little clumps usually on the edges of where the coral is dead and alive........

 

When i found them it was immediately after killing my red bugs(which i origianlly THOUGHT were what was killing my corals) and i coincidentally had quite a few of the normal red flatworms as well. I dont know what happens in the Interceptor treatments that allow the aefw's to be able to instantly be more damgaing.......but thats what happened to me.....the interceptor treatments are killing a lot more than just pods(which is what red bugs ARE)

 

read this..or at least as much of it as you can handle http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=688833&perpage=533

 

 

they are the spawn of satan...i lost more than a few hudred dollars worth of corals but i DID finally beat them by removing all stonies from the tank and treating with levamisole and lugols without throwing all of my corals away unlike what some people have resorted to to get rid of them........(i did lose about ten more in the process but i saved about 30 others)

 

i no longer add any stonies to my systems without a 6 week quarantine first........it sucks but6 thats the only way to be sure i think a lot more people have them than are aware and that many times people blow off STN as the cause of death ti is in fact a symptom of aefw's......

 

Those are GREAT pics impur...great pics of a bad thing

[impur]

The only reason Steve and I had said we didn't think they were AEFW was because he stated he saw them on the glass which is a rarity for these guys, and that they were eating his montis, which has never been documented. It could be possible he has a whole new strain of them though, which would be very very very very bad.

[fly guy]

The only reason Steve and I had said we didn't think they were AEFW was because he stated he saw them on the glass which is a rarity for these guys' date=' and that they were eating his montis, which has never been documented. It could be possible he has a whole new strain of them though, which would be very very very very bad.[/quote']

 

Understood.

 

Or be like myself who had the common brown/red aceolas as well which do not harm healthy corals. I dont know what to say about the montis as mine were never affected by either.

 

The whole aefw thing is a nightmare really and i know it has been incentive for more than a few accomplished reefers to give up their sps tanks........

 

Frankly, i dont like the idea of having to treat your entire system with any cattle or dog products. (scratch) The entire ramifications of which being unknown. Again, im only speaking for my limited experience with them, but I firmly believe that the interceptor treatments to my tank did something that allowed the aefw's which were unnoticed before, to blatantly jump in my face within weeks of red bug elimination. Nothing new was added to the system for a couple of months before this happened, so the aefw's had always been there.

[sknoch78]

Well all is back to normal. What is left is on the mend and showing some good polyp extension. It will take some time to regain all the color I am sure. I lost approx 50%, mostly the colonies with the exception of my scroll. Most all of the small frags survived.

I ended up treating for flatworms and did an 80% water change. Come to find out, I had one snail that had died and was rotting in its shell. I am guessing this may have been what fouled the water, because it about knocked me over when it fell out of the shell.

Although I have managed to do a good job keeping the water quality in check, I am so looking forward to the big tank being up and running, it should prove to be much more stable. I have also learned that no matter where the live stock comes from, ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS treat and quarantine new aquasitions.

 

Thanks to all that helped with suggestions.

 

Shawn

[impur]

I have also learned that no matter where the live stock comes from, ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS treat and quarantine new aquasitions.

 

Thanks to all that helped with suggestions.

 

Shawn

 

 

I learned this the hard way as well. Glad everything is on the mend.

[robz]

Just curious what preventative measures you all take when introduceing a new colony or frag into your systems? I have not been fortuneate enough yet to have a SPS reef, but I will soon. And before I put my first acro colony or frag into my new tank I want to know what preventative measures I can take to avoid introduceing flat worms, or any other unwanted predators into my reef.

 

Is there a dip that you can use on acros? Something similar to Muchoreef and his Zoa dip?

[impur]

TMPCC = Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure. Everything gets dipped at 2X strength in this stuff before going into my tank. I would also suggest at least 4 weeks of QT for every SPS coral with weekly dips. I won't add another SPS without going thru this procedure.