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reefgeek84

More citizens carrying guns, stop lost lives?

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You can still get sued. If McDonalds can get sued for selling hot coffee, anyone can get sued for nothing. If someone were to shoot someone and kill them because the person threatened them with what they believe to be deadly force, than probably the lawsuit would go no where. If it was a stray bullet, and it hits someone, then you could face a lawsuit because you were negligent. All gun owners should always check their back drop. The good samaritan law is mainly for doing CPR and medical aid. Although you can protect the life of a third person if that persons life is in danger. I hope this answers your question.

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The CWP process is a very grueling process, not just anybody can get a gun...trust me.

 

are you kidding me?? 8 hours of traffic safetly school is WAY more grueling.

 

all it takes is VERY basic knowledge of how to handle a gun, a few hours of your time and a clean criminal record.

 

Im not against vigilante justice in some cases....but in the big picture, i believe that if there were some big campaign or something to get all of these citizens to start carrying guns in an effort to promote it, many more people would die than if that campaign didnt happen.

 

That will never happen...but Im just saying hypothetically.

 

We all know or have known someone who is very public about their ability to carry a gun and to brandish it often. The more people who carry the more idiots like that you would have carrying and using them in situations that didnt call for it, and more people would get hurt and die as a result of it.

 

 

I like guns. Have a dozen or so. Have a CWP, carry one in the truck and have had to once actually pull it out and it did stop something potentially very bad from happening. Doesnt change the fact that the last thing I think would be a good idea is to trust a signifigant number of the general populations judgement if they were packing heat.

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I am agreeing that in whole our society has gotten soft and sue happy. I also think that just changing the laws to punish criminals swiftly and severly and publicly could do the same as a deturence or even better. For instance take the neighborhood crack dealer for instance and when you catch him with more then his share of rock and its clear and you have made many controlled buys from him, why not just go get him and drag him into the street and cap him right there (torch). Instead of putting him in jail for ever just to see him out at some point and reoffend again and again. Three strikes meens they have three times before they get to spend life in jail with their freinds. Some of them like being in prison. I say save our money spent on prisons and buy bullets instead. It should be instant death for murder rape and drug crimes involving quantities more then personal use. This would really detur people. Think about it....they will die without appeal if caught selling meth. How many people would be selling meth? Again.....if no one is selling then who will be stealing my

sh%t to support a drug habit that cannot purchase drugs anyway?

 

More general public with firearms......no thanks. I personally think most people should not own bb guns let alone firearms. Hunting and sport shooting I am all for. But armed walmart shoppers scares the sh$t out of me.

 

Jay

 

 

Jay

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I think that training needs to be more of a focus, spent 8 years in the army, was the weapons trainer for my unit, and have a cwp. In the class to get the Oregon Permit they were explaining the difference between a semi and revolver for the class. If you need it that basic perhaps they should have more training prior to getting a permit to carry. I do believe that training especially in schools would help. they can teach my kids about birth control, why not about gun safety? (I already taught mine gun safety, that was for all the other kids) maybe the permit classes could be at a gun range where you get the classwork part and a competency component? I don't have a problem with people carrying guns if they know what in the @##$%% they are doing..

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Most people don't know how to use a gun properly. A couple years ago I was at a store and over heard a young teenage kid want to buy ammo for his gun. The clerk asked for id and asked so what size of ammo do you need. The young 19 year old said "what ever size will fit this gun". The clerk then said what kind of gun do you have? The guy said a hand gun. I thought to myself please don't sell him any ammo. It made me sick to my stomach. Back when the constitution was written, the part that says "right to bare arms" I think that needs to be revised. Hand guns had not been invented yet. Back then most people hunted for food and if someone came on their land they had the right to protect themselves. Now you can go to the grocery store and get what you need. Not as much hunting these days. I think its a huge responsibly to own a gun. More than a lot of folks can handle. I myself would not feel safer if more people had guns. How do I know they have had training and education and know how to use the gun? I don't!!! And that to me is a huge gamble. Someone pulls out a gun I can only hope that they know to use it and not wave it around. VERY (scary) stuff!!!!

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Someone pulls out a gun I can only hope that they know to use it and not wave it around. VERY (scary) stuff!!!!

 

Agreed!

 

And seeing how many people have anger management problems nowadays and fly off the handle at the slightest (perceived) insult, I'd really like to know that they can't just take an easy class and walk away with a CWP.

 

I can guarantee with today's aggressiveness, that there would be problems. Difference of opinion escalating?

Pull out you gun to convince the other! Even better if both have one and they can have a good, old-fashioned meeting in the street.(scary)

 

Seriously, I'd find the prospect really scary in today's society.

And imagine all the law suits that are sure to follow...

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actually.. getting a cwp isnt that hard at all. it consists of taking a firearm safety class. You are fingerprinted, photographed, and an extensive criminal, civil, and mental health background check is conducted. You cant be convicted of a crime of domestic violence, nor any felony, and not convicted of a misdemeanor in the last 4 years.

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I can imagine that the world would be a much safer place if we had the majority of people running around bearing arms' date=' just as our forefather intended. Kentucky long rifles were hard to conceal and slow to reload.[/quote']

 

LMAO, i missed this.

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WOW!

 

I cant believe I actually read all of this! I think this is probably one of the longest reads on the whole forumn. Very interesting though.

 

I am a fence rider on this subject. I own many guns and fire them seldom(wish I had the time to more). My family did not have many guns in the house and in fact my first experiences with guns came from a friend and his dad. Guns are killing devices, this is a fact! It cannot be argued that people die everyday from guns, they do. However guns are not going to go away anytime in the near future and in my opinion this is a good thing. EDUCATION is most definately the key here. No matter how much education happens, people will still die from accidental and non accidental gun discharges. But fewer incidences are a very good thing and that is only provided by responsible practices and education. I have taken several courses on gun safety, including the all too basic hunters safety course and yet I still feel very unsure about whether carrying is a good idea. I am personally going to get my CWP and have scheduled my class already. I will likely never carry any of my guns, save for when I am out hunting or camping or when I go to the range.

 

Not sure why I even wrote all of this as it really is completely up to each person and is a completely personal matter. We are likely safer with fewer guns out there, and I am not sure this can be debated in my mind. But I enjoy firearms and do so responsibly.

 

I cant tell you how many debates over this subject I have heard, and how often I find myself siding with both ends of the argument. I am a Sociologist, so I have done much research on this subject and have heared many opinions and facts. Still I think everyone needs to ride the fence on this subject. Gather as much information as possible and be open minded. Be responsible, educated, and safe with your weapons, and drive saftely(joking, but seriously do drive safe). Teach your kids both sides of this argument well and make sure they get as much education as you can provide them. Guns are never a safe thing, but they can be much safer if they are educated about and treated with as much respect as possible.

 

 

Garrett

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Tell you what... lets all just get one of these :D can you imagine what it would be like to hunt with Dick cheney weilding one of these :p

 

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/guns/recoilless-auto-shotgun-fires-300-rounds-per-minute-no-cleaning-or-lube-required-324453.php?autoplay=true

 

Ok...thats is SWEET.

 

 

Iwould love to go play with that thing for an hour........

 

Hopefully somebody ELSE would provide the ammunition though...... rough guess....$75 a minute........

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The limit on geese would have to be raised!!!!!!!!!

 

We can leave the goose limit where its at. I've recently noticed way to many DUCKS waddling around my part of the state.

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WOW, that is the coolest shotgun I have ever seen.. I want one, but bet I can't afford it.

Also for all the folks in the Portland Area who haven't fired a handgun and are scared of them, perhaps we local gun owners could meet interested non-owners somewhere and teach them? let them fire a little assuming they are allowed legally to do so? we could start the education instead of preach the importance (it is important). I'm willing to assist. just my .02 worth.

I belong to a place to shoot but am open to anywhere.

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I know this thread may be old but I just read it for the first time :)

 

First of all, there is no CWP in Oregon, it's a CHL. A CWP specifically is a "concealed weapons permit" which includes daggers, switchblades, and handguns. Oregon's CHL is a "concealed handgun license" which does not include daggers, switchblades, and the like. Carrying of them (daggers, switchblades, etc.) concealed in Oregon is a big no-no and you can lose your CHL for doing so and charged with the crime. Small point maybe but there is a distinct difference.

 

If you have a CHL and pull it out in public at any time that it is not reasonably necessary is considered brandishing a weapon and is another big no-no in Oregon. So the idea of people running around waving them in the air should be dismissed. Everyone I know that has a CHL values it and is not going to risk the permit, their property, not their freedom to show off that they have a weapon. Also, everyone I know that has one and carries understands that it is a huge responsibility, that they must control their tempers far more than most people who do not have a CHL. When you have a CHL, self control is the mantra - you have to calm down those petty little arguments and not allow them to escalate into something bigger. If this means swallowing your pride every now and then, so be it, you simply cannot allow the incident to escalate. Cops and other LEOs understand this, and most CHL holders do as well. There are *very* few crimes involving CHL holders, primarily these people are upstanding, law abiding folks who are willing to go through the proper and legal process of getting the CHL - not the people shooting up malls.

 

To the original question of "would it save lives?" it's a hopeful proposition, but probably doubtful. If someone is really willing to shoot a bunch of folks and then themselves, it's really not going to change. When there's a will, there's a way, unfortunate but true. If someone has a gun to your head or is in the process of doing so, you simply will not have time to pull your *concealed* weapon in time to do something about it. It may help in some instances, certainly, but for most people - the primary tool is their intelligence. The primary goal is safety, get you, your family, and others in a safe location first. Ask any cop or LEO, reaching into your pockets or anything else will get you into all sorts of trouble or dead. All gunmen are nervous and if they are active shooters, will not hesitate to shoot the upstanding CHL holder either, so again evading the situation is paramount. Using the recent mall shooting as an example, if you were there with your family and you suddenly heard shots, your first responsibility is to get you and yours to a safe location. by the time you got this accomplished, many shots could be fired. The CHL would only be of value if you happened to be in a safe location, a good shot, and are of proper frame of mind to get the shot off.

 

Would more CHL holders prove to be a deterrent? Maybe, there are studies that prove this to be true, but these are not scientific studies in controlled environments. While one could say that the states with the most liberal gun laws also have lower rates of violent crime, you must also consider that these states also have the lowest population densities. Cities and states with the most stringent gun laws probably have those laws enacted because of the population densities, hence the violent crime rates so the laws become a reactionary solution that may or may not work. The real problem is that these laws, while enacted with good intentions, do not stop the criminal element from obtaining weapons and using them. They *generally* only stop the average upstanding citizen from obtaining them for purposes of sporting or self defense, I'd point at Washington DC as an example of this, high crime rates yet virtually impossible for the average citizen to own a handgun for any reason.

 

As for being sued; if you are a CHL holder and involved in a shooting, count on being sued. Whether you win or lose is a different issue, but in either case it will be expensive, stressing, and time consuming. Add to that the potential mental anguish that accompanies the taking of a life, this can haunt you for the rest of your life, whether justified or not.

 

Final thought is that holding a CHL and carrying *can* be a valuable resource but is in no means *the* answer to violent crimes. I don't know what is exactly and I don't think there is one answer, probably a combination of things that will never be fully understood.

 

James

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Because I know what it takes to get a CWP and I know the people who have them...they are trained like cops...trust me

 

Heh, are you kidding? Getting a CWP (or sorry, a CHL as mentioned above) is a piece of cake in Oregon. Attend a lame class for $25, send in your certificate and there you go.

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If you've handled firearms much, you may think the class is fairly lame, usually a "handgun safety course" taught by a certified NRA instructor (usually 3hrs & $25-35). You take the class, get your certificate, take it to the Sheriff's office, get yourself fingerprinted & photographed, pay the fee ($25 or so, ~$10 for fingerprinting, ~$15 for the actual card), wait for your background check to be completed, if approved - you will generally get your card in about 30 days in Washington County but this time can vary from county to county.

 

It is a piece of cake, and it absolutely should be if you are a law abiding citizen in a "shall issue" state. If you have any violent offenses in the past esp domestic violence, *any* charges pending, or any felony convictions - you are immediately disqualified.

 

If interested, practice often & I'd strongly advise a good firearms training course. Some of these courses do train more intensively than many Police do. The average Officer is allotted 250 rounds a yr for training, some of these courses will mandate 400-800 rounds (or more, with accuracy) over a 2-3 day period just to pass the course. While it is expensive and time consuming, I consider it very practical with all things considered Nothing will help you shoot better than trigger time, except a good instructor to help you use that time more wisely.

 

One such source for these courses: http://www.oregonfirearmsacademy.com

 

James

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