More citizens carrying guns, stop lost lives?

[reefgeek84]

I just read another story about a man who opened fire in a shopping mall killing 8 people, injuring 5 others...2 critically. They found a note that said he wanted "to go out in style."

 

Do you think if more citizens carried guns these people could be stopped in their tracks and help prevent innocent lives from being lost. Some people might not notice right away, but once a couple of shots were fired, someone who could have been carrying a gun could have stopped him, before they got to 13 shots off...

 

I think that if more people carried guns, this stuff would get stopped, before it escalated like the many recent shootings. I am considering getting my CWP, because there are too many crazy people who want to commit suicide, but decide they want to take people's lives with them, cause they want "to go out in style". I think we as a society have gone soft and sue happy and these crazy people know this, and they can walk into a school, mall or just on the street and shoot a bunch of people cause they know we will not do anything...We as a society will not do anything, because we have gone soft and people are fearful that if they to help and take a bad person out, they can get sued by that person for a number of things. I mean police are not pulling the trigger and getting shot themselves, for fear of someone suing. Do I think we need to be a cut throat society? No, not at all...but we need to start standing up for ourselves and not letting these stupid a$$ people do this stuff.

 

I am not going to get into these people's child hoods, because that becomes discussing parenting and that is an entire new can of worms...

 

But I would really like to hear people's thoughts on this...of course we need to keep it flame free...(rock2)

[siskiou]

Well, the more people carry guns, the more crazies will be able to just start shooting whenever they please.

Not sure that more guns= less violence.

 

In a crowd, even the police can't just start randomly shooting, for fear of hurting innocent bystanders.

People would need to get trained to use their guns and I'm not sure I'd trust everyone and their brother/sister with a gun.

In fact, I know a few people I'd stay far away from, if anyone could carry a concealed weapon.

[reefgeek84]

Well, the more people carry guns, the more crazies will be able to just start shooting whenever they please.

Not sure that more guns= less violence.

 

In a crowd, even the police can't just start randomly shooting, for fear of hurting innocent bystanders.

People would need to get trained to use their guns and I'm not sure I'd trust everyone and their brother/sister with a gun.

In fact, I know a few people I'd stay far away from, if anyone could carry a concealed weapon.

 

The crazies you talk about shooting, has nothing to do with CWP, those people that shoot do not have a CWP, they either steal gun or just register one, because the process to get a CWP is super intensive. I do see your point.

 

The CWP process is a very grueling process, not just anybody can get a gun...trust me.

[180Brandy]

I don't think more citizens caring guns is the answer. That would not make me feel safer. Maybe malls and other public places should have better security. Medal detectors would be one possible solution. This is a very touchy subject. The right to bare arms ok the right to go and kill people no.

[reefhut]

I think everyone should have access to a firmarm. If it's to hard to obtain a fire arm, then the only people that will have them are criminals, because they'll get them illegally. So...yes I agree that if everyone had one, there would be less shootings and the world would be a better place.

[Nyles]

More people with guns would deter violence in public, however it would also have lots of repercussions, like kids getting access to guns, accidental shootings/firing of arms, what could have been a verbal dispute becomes a shooting victim. there is a large amount of people out there that simply just should not have guns, this kind of tips the ice berg on the subject of teachers with guns in school. In one way it sounds good, but in reality, the few occurences where it would help I can think of 100 where it would be deadly.

[siskiou]

Yes, there are always two sides to the problem.

Just imagine this mall shooting: one guy starts shooting and 25 citizens with a CWP pull out their guns and start getting involved.

Within minutes, everyone will have lost track of who are the good guys or the bad guys. Chaos ensues...

[reefgeek84]

Yes, there are always two sides to the problem.

Just imagine this mall shooting: one guy starts shooting and 25 citizens with a CWP pull out their guns and start getting involved.

Within minutes, everyone will have lost track of who are the good guys or the bad guys. Chaos ensues...

 

I do not see it this way...

[reefgeek84]

More people with guns would deter violence in public' date=' however it would also have lots of repercussions, like kids getting access to guns, accidental shootings/firing of arms, what could have been a verbal dispute becomes a shooting victim. there is a large amount of people out there that simply just should not have guns, this kind of tips the ice berg on the subject of teachers with guns in school. In one way it sounds good, but in reality, the few occurences where it would help I can think of 100 where it would be deadly.[/quote']

 

I am not so sure...I know a few people with CWP's and they are super, super responsible with their guns and they have children, who have friends who come over and they have the gun in place where it is not possible for them to get it. My father has many guns in the house, same with my grandfather (both have a CWP) and I have been raised around them and have up most respect for them and have been taught do not point the gun at anything you do not intend to shoot, and I know the damage a gun could cause, I knew it at the age 4 and would never tempt to play with it or anything of that nature...I also know kids that are raised around guns and this is their same mentality.

[siskiou]

How do you see it working out in a situation like that?

[reefgeek84]

How do you see it working out in a situation like that?

 

Because I know what it takes to get a CWP and I know the people who have them...they are trained like cops...trust me, 99.9% of people who have a CWP, would not just start shooting randomly and from afar...that I know for sure. I guess my thinking is if these people have no idea who is carrying them and they open fire it could be a person who is close behind them and would have a clean shot. Also, if people knew there were many trained citizens carrying guns, I think it would detour people from doing what they do. I agree with you if we are talking about people just having a gun, but it is a totally different case with CWP's and I guess I need to make that more clear, that I am talking about people getting a CWP.

[Nyles]

A of mine cousin died due to a parent leaving a loaded shotgun at home locked in there bedroom, kids have a way of finding cool things and showing them off to others, as someone who has not experienced it I don't expect you to understand but guns do kill and of course some moron is usually at the other end of the trigger.

 

I lost another friend years back in the Rodney King thing, we came home from a band practice and he pulled up to a stop light behind a car in the passenger seat, the people in front backed into him, then a car pulled up from behind and blocked them in, he was robbed of there equipment then shot 6 times after firing a gun, the driver was shot 55 times both where good friends.

 

My step father was killed with his own gun a few years back after being wrested to the floor in his OWN HOUSE as well, carrying a CWP would not of saved him, I dont think the permit is bulletproof. I could go on and these are not stories, there true as true can be.

 

I personally have been held at gunpoint twice by a shotgun and once with a pistol, and shot at while hunting once, these experiences change your views on guns, again something I don't expect you to understand without experiencing it, regardless of how you may feel about your friends you look up to and how protected you feel with one beside you.

 

I would not be surprised at all if you carried a permit (even though that really means nothing other than your not totally an idiot and dont have a record) and where to attempt to stop that guy, fire a shot and guess who the next guy 20' away will look at when they draw there weapon, you the guy aiming at him. Good luck.... Its a great idea, really, but there is just to many stupid people out there. I consider myself a very intelligent gun owner but most people just are not responsible enough to own them, or simply dont understand what pulling the trigger can do to a person, if not themselves the people around them that one day get access to it are a big danger.

 

I still have guns and collect a few, I go clay pigeon shooting as well but I can't simply walk around with a loaded weapon, more people get shot by there own guns these days. Guns are a great responsibility, and most people simply are not cut out for it regardless if they are trained or not.

 

Go get your CWP and carry for about 4 months, there really a PITA, I could see if there was real community issues and theft was high and you where really distressed, or threatened but for me, my weapons stay home, unloaded and locked up I can fight my fights without guns. What Im trying to say after blabbing FOREVER is, If you feel safe with a gun I think your living with false safety, and I would be willing to wager your more in danger with it than without. However I am 100% sure you will not see it that way for years to come, if not ever.

[coker98]

Besides having a great ability to take lives the Concealed Weapon is also a great deterrant. It makes people think about what they are about to do because they can now be harmed.

[coker98]

I have also researched this and I know that pulling the trigger means a lot of legal battles.

[reefgeek84]

A of mine cousin died due to a parent leaving a loaded shotgun at home locked in there bedroom, kids have a way of finding cool things and showing them off to others, as someone who has not experienced it I don't expect you to understand but guns do kill and of course some moron is usually at the other end of the trigger.

 

I lost another friend years back in the Rodney King thing, we came home from a band practice and he pulled up to a stop light behind a car in the passenger seat, the people in front backed into him, then a car pulled up from behind and blocked them in, he was robbed of there equipment then shot 6 times after firing a gun, the driver was shot 55 times both where good friends.

 

My step father was killed with his own gun a few years back after being wrested to the floor in his OWN HOUSE as well, carrying a CWP would not of saved him, I dont think the permit is bulletproof. I could go on and these are not stories, there true as true can be.

 

I personally have been held at gunpoint twice by a shotgun and once with a pistol, and shot at while hunting once, these experiences change your views on guns, again something I don't expect you to understand without experiencing it, regardless of how you may feel about your friends you look up to and how protected you feel with one beside you.

 

I would not be surprised at all if you carried a permit (even though that really means nothing other than your not totally an idiot and dont have a record) and where to attempt to stop that guy, fire a shot and guess who the next guy 20' away will look at when they draw there weapon, you the guy aiming at him. Good luck.... Its a great idea, really, but there is just to many stupid people out there. I consider myself a very intelligent gun owner but most people just are not responsible enough to own them, or simply dont understand what pulling the trigger can do to a person, if not themselves the people around them that one day get access to it are a big danger.

 

I still have guns and collect a few, I go clay pigeon shooting as well but I can't simply walk around with a loaded weapon, more people get shot by there own guns these days. Guns are a great responsibility, and most people simply are not cut out for it regardless if they are trained or not.

 

Go get your CWP and carry for about 4 months, there really a PITA, I could see if there was real community issues and theft was high and you where really distressed, or threatened but for me, my weapons stay home, unloaded and locked up I can fight my fights without guns. What Im trying to say after blabbing FOREVER is, If you feel safe with a gun I think your living with false safety, and I would be willing to wager your more in danger with it than without. However I am 100% sure you will not see it that way for years to come, if not ever.

 

I completely resent the fact that you are up on your ivory tower, telling me "guns really do kill people" step off your high horse and down from that tower...sorry that is it for the personal shot, but that is ridiculous.

 

I am sorry for your loses...I have known two people to be shot and killed, so I do have a feeling of what it feels like...They were not family members so I do not know it on that degree...

 

That is the wrong mentality...I never said it was about winning a fight...I said I am not sure if I feel safer with a gun or not, but it is stories like this that make me consider it.

 

as for parents leaving guns around the house and kids playing with them, I truly feel that is a lack of parenting not a childs fault..so that is an issue that needs to be addressed as parents are not being responsible for teaching their children to respect a gun and their fault for leaving a loaded gun around the house where their kids can access it...not the guns fault. I would have never in a million years just picked up a gun to play with it, because I was taught that is not what you do...

 

You seem to blame guns for people doing things with them...that makes no sense to me...should we out law knives cause people kill people with them. Maybe we should out law cars, because there are stupid people behind the wheel and they kill people?

 

You take everything I say and put your own thought on it...I never said I look up to these people, so that it is your own imaginations concoction. I said that they are examples of how it should be and I believe how most people are. I like alot of people's fish tanks and think they are good examples of tanks, but I do not look up to them...

 

I do believe that everyone needs to be taught about gun safety... like driving, there is a reason we do not have anything like the autobahn here in the states...because we do not respect driving, we are merely taught to pass a test. Imagine people knowing their limits and their car's limits and driving a on a road that has no speed limit...man a crazy thought. Speaking of this, I was watching a thing on HD (cause I love my HD) it was about drifting and one of the guys is from Sweden and he teaches kids about cars and different things that can happen driving, lets them get a little swirly to show them how it feels and how quickly it can get out of control. He said he does this because in the states we are merely taught to pass a test, but are not taught to respect the roads and cars that we drive and others are driving.

 

In more danger with it or with out...that is all subjective...I know many people who have needed to draw gun and it 99.9% saved their life!

 

I digress however...You have said your peace and I have said mine...one of those things were I do not think we will convince each other wise...I think you have brought up very valid points and made me sit and think some, which is why I love this sort of dialog and I started this thread.

 

Would love to hear what others think.

[reefgeek84]

Besides having a great ability to take lives the Concealed Weapon is also a great deterrant. It makes people think about what they are about to do because they can now be harmed.

 

I agree 100%...If everyone could steal and get away with it, alot more people would be stealing...but the fear of not knowing if security is watching either on cameras or undercover, detours alot of people from doing it...Same thing here, if more people were armed and responsible about it, I think alot of people would think twice before they do this sort of thing.

 

Again I do not think that more are guns are the complete answer, I think education is another major factor in it.

[reef-fisher]

it sounds like reefgeek and i have had a similar upbringing. throughout my childhood, i knew that there were loaded guns in the house. most of them were in my dads room, fully loaded, and at our disposal, but completely safe. my siblings and i had a certain respect for firearms. even when friends came over and saw them on the wall, we KNEW not to mess with them. a respect for guns was bestowed on us at a very young age and has carried on throughout our lives. GUNS KILL PEOPLE! even now i am wary about keeping arms in the house with children, as i have two of my own. fortunately, i have the ability to spend time with my children and the ability to put the same information and fear in their minds as my father did me. unfortunately, there are families that are not as fortunate and cannot or will not teach their children about the danger and concequences of firearms. the sad part is, its not usually the fortunate ones who shoot at churches, schools, malls, etc.. it is the ones who are not informed and educated. i dont really have a point, i guess, because i know both sides have legitimate reasons for what they believe. i will however continue to teach my children about what i have learned, and conceal my pistol in public places to keep MY family safe. i know there are a lot of crazy people out there and intend to do whatever possible to protect myself and the people close to me.

[180Brandy]

Society has really changed in the last 30 years. Back in the day all it took was a mean look and your Dad telling you if you touch my guns your life is over. And I can make another one just like ya. Parents had better control of their kids. I also think when "we" become parents we say to ourselves "I will never put my child though what I was put though". I think having a CWP at least shows you have knowledge of the gun and how to use one. One question I have is when does the good Samaritan come into play? Can you still be sued if you shoot someone while trying to save lives?

[Nyles]

Ivory tower? Whatever, I simply gave you an alternative view, you don't like it tough. It takes an idiot to pull the trigger, the gun don't go off on its own, all I'm saying is you by having a gun on yourself at all time puts you at more risk to have something happen to you since your the guy with the weapon, your taking the responsibility and you have to be conscientious of it at all times. I am speaking of day to day life of carrying a gun.

 

As far as the rest, they where generalizations of why people get guns, not directed towards you, chill out. Its a forum, where all adults here, right?

 

As far as Kids and guns, your still going to blame a parent for a locked gun... and a kid sneaks home breaks in during a parents vacation when the kids suppose to be at a friends? Cmon, who really leaves there gun out to play with like Nintendo's? The gun owner is sadly still partially at fault, but so is everyone.... the kid, the owner of the gun, and the person responsible for the child.

 

Talking about guns is like talking about politics. You can stir the pot but can you handle others having there own opinion or giving alternate views, even if I agreed with you I'm still going to provide a second or third view, not because I think its the right thing to do (it is) but because I like to see you squirm because you don't like opposition and alternate opinions. Take a pill a relax... Better yet, you should read up on your Mark Twain or help me build up this Ivory tower I have at my desk for not bowing down and saluting you. What do you think would happen in a lot of altercations you see on the news if a these people had guns? What do you think would happen in a RIOT?

 

I'm sure in the case of what your saying people will be more safe initially but its also in most peoples lives there never going to be in a shootout with a kid in a mall or school, but day to day living, thats what I'm talking about.... the real world where things happen when you are not paying attention, I could give lots of situations, Im sure you can come up with a few as well, some of these gun carriers (and where talking about way more gun holders now because thats what you suggested) will make a mistake.

 

Other than the few that are careless, I think more guns is great... really but its the few that think they can handle it and really cant that make it a dangerous recipe for all sorts of issues, but it would make for some interesting news.

[chewie]

I think the Nuge said it best.

 

There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period.

Ted Nugent

[Nyles]

I have to agree with Nugent on gun control.

In a sick kind of way you could look at a nuke the same way.... US uses them to deter opposition and country's that want them want to use them on us. I am not talking politics, I should delete this... oh well... here goes. But Im not responding to political posts.... lol.

[reefboy]

I think the Nuge said it best.

 

There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period.

Ted Nugent

 

AMEN!!! Anyways I plan on getting my CWP and my wife also but your not going to get alot of folks getting one do to the rigor's of the test and I wouldnt want it simplified to get more folks to carry what needs to happen to stop these kids and or later adults from losing it then killing people needs to start in the home I think there needs to be a permit for being a parent there be alot less messed up or druged out people if we made it a harse penalty for being a bad parent.Guns may help to keep you safe but starting in the home will salidafie it.

[Nyles]

AMEN!!! Anyways I plan on getting my CWP and my wife also but your not going to get alot of folks getting one do to the rigor's of the test and I wouldnt want it simplified to get more folks to carry what needs to happen to stop these kids and or later adults from losing it then killing people needs to start in the home I think there needs to be a permit for being a parent there be alot less messed up or druged out people if we made it a harse penalty for being a bad parent.Guns may help to keep you safe but starting in the home will salidafie it.

 

I agree, we fostered kids for sometime, the parents where a real piece of work, its amazing how quick kids turn around with proper parenting and a good schedule

[Lowman]

To keep a thread like this "flame free" is impossible. Everyone has an opinion on this matter, and it is, in its nature, a volitile subject that will eventually bring out emotions, good and bad, which it has already. I see this as a thread that doesn't belong here, even in the "Out of Bounds" section. It is entirely too political and I think this thread should be deleted.

[cyenna]

I don't think it should be deleted. You can't just delete anything that is controversial - you can't just ignore that this is an issue. If moderators think that people are getting out of hand then the topic can be closed but by no means deleted.