Manny Tavan Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) I am thinking about making the plunge into the calcium reactor world. I am leaning towards a automated system like the deltec twin-tec vs Dastaco vs Aquarium ENG ACR The ACR seems to have the simplest design and is the least expensive option. It's also made in the USA. Is there anyone local using one of the ACR? https://www.aquariumeng.com/products/calcium-reactors/6-stacked-auto-ca-reactor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz1QOpmFxt0 Edited January 14, 2020 by Manny Tavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Interesting. A bit hard to tell from the limited info they provide but looks like the hardware is basically a solenoid controller on the CO2 line that is adjusting the "on" and "off" time to achieve pH changes in the chamber combined with some sort of (peristaltic?) control (set rate?) on the effluent. Guessing it also has some sort of limiter on the Co2 pressure to get the overall delivery rate reasonable (if not achieved via a traditional regulator). If I am reading this correctly you could basically reproduce this with a standard regulator with solenoid, a peristaltic pump, and a bit of plug coding on your Apex (to set CO2 on/off times). Curious if anyone does have experience with these as I don't necessarily see their inherent advantage other than keeping everything in "one box" so to speak. Not clear that there is any sort of feedback control on the system either (i.e. isn't adjusting to hold any particular set point). Also, if one did want to add the advantages of pH monitoring/control they would need other components to do so. I do see how reactors can be frustrating given that you can potentially exercise multiple points of control which all interact with one another - hence making it frustrating for someone trying to get it dialed in - but once you understand the relationships of CO2/pH/flow to effective alk it's pretty straightforward. That said, accurate effluent flow control is hard to to achieve without either a decent peristaltic pump or going to high flow rate/high pH combinations. Guessing there is maybe something else going on with this that isn't apparent at first glance? Definitely has a price premium attached to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I have been fascinated by the DaStaco's and wanting to research how they work without a PH probe. Very cool there are some state side options now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obrien.david.j Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I've been following a thread on this reactor on R2R. Just watching how it goes. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aquarium-engineering-acr-calcium-reactor.614741/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 It would be good to see one on a tank with a trident, to see how stable it is. With a peristaltic and constant regulator Co2 pressure it seems like it would be very stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Tavan Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, albertareef said: Interesting. A bit hard to tell from the limited info they provide but looks like the hardware is basically a solenoid controller on the CO2 line that is adjusting the "on" and "off" time to achieve pH changes in the chamber combined with some sort of (peristaltic?) control (set rate?) on the effluent. Guessing it also has some sort of limiter on the Co2 pressure to get the overall delivery rate reasonable (if not achieved via a traditional regulator). If I am reading this correctly you could basically reproduce this with a standard regulator with solenoid, a peristaltic pump, and a bit of plug coding on your Apex (to set CO2 on/off times). Curious if anyone does have experience with these as I don't necessarily see their inherent advantage other than keeping everything in "one box" so to speak. Not clear that there is any sort of feedback control on the system either (i.e. isn't adjusting to hold any particular set point). Also, if one did want to add the advantages of pH monitoring/control they would need other components to do so. I do see how reactors can be frustrating given that you can potentially exercise multiple points of control which all interact with one another - hence making it frustrating for someone trying to get it dialed in - but once you understand the relationships of CO2/pH/flow to effective alk it's pretty straightforward. That said, accurate effluent flow control is hard to to achieve without either a decent peristaltic pump or going to high flow rate/high pH combinations. Guessing there is maybe something else going on with this that isn't apparent at first glance? Definitely has a price premium attached to it! I believe the Co2 supply is constant using a regulator. There is a float valve that detects when there isn't enough CO2 in the mix. the pH is not monitored at all. The only thing that gets adjusted is the number of seconds when the effluent gets added to the tank. 2 seconds every 200 seconds is the starting amount and you go up from there. From what I've read the DKH of the effluent is 50-60. Edited January 15, 2020 by Manny Tavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Manny Tavan said: The only thing that gets adjusted is the number of seconds when the effluent gets added to the tank. 2 seconds every 200 seconds is the starting amount and you go up from there. From what I've read the DKH of the effluent is 50-60. Ok - that is interesting. I had the impression that was controlling the C02 inlet as opposed to the effluent rate. Definitely a different beast if they are metering the CO2 by virtue of the float valve. Will need to dig into this at some point to better understand what they are doing. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Tavan Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, albertareef said: Ok - that is interesting. I had the impression that was controlling the C02 inlet as opposed to the effluent rate. Definitely a different beast if they are metering the CO2 by virtue of the float valve. Will need to dig into this at some point to better understand what they are doing. Thanks for the info! metering co2 is how deltec and dastaco are set up as well skip to 12:00 for an explanation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bicyclebill Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 [language filter], some serious brain surgeon talk going on in this one! I have nothing else to add, sorry. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenbasketreef Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Manny Tavan said: I believe the Co2 supply is constant using a regulator. There is a float valve that detects when there isn't enough CO2 in the mix. the pH is not monitored at all. The only thing that gets adjusted is the number of seconds when the effluent gets added to the tank. 2 seconds every 200 seconds is the starting amount and you go up from there. From what I've read the DKH of the effluent is 50-60. Not really, if there is a back pressure it affect the supply line of CO2 also will depend on quality regulator. Having PH controller helps automate the CO2 injection by controlling PH inside the chamber. Depending on media 6.8 ph will be sufficient to melt the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Tavan Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 You’re right. The controller has a solenoid that lets co2 in (from the controller to the reactor) based on the status of the float switch. I meant that the supply of co2 from the regulator to the solenoid is left open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuncrestReef Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 For those concerned about aesthetics, Geo is now offering custom color combinations. This would match my Apex and plumbing nicely....🤓 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxmonkeyboy Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I have read up on those auto calrx before. Honestly though, with the kamoer pumps and an apex ph controller you get the same amount or automation for a lot less money. Dialing it in is as simple as speeding up or slowing down the kamoer. The apex will adjust co2 as needed. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxmonkeyboy Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 14 hours ago, SuncrestReef said: For those concerned about aesthetics, Geo is now offering custom color combinations. This would match my Apex and plumbing nicely....🤓 I can't remember where, but i recently read that having too much orange plumbing and nick nacks can cause STN in acropora. Something to be aware of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuncrestReef Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, pdxmonkeyboy said: I can't remember where, but i recently read that having too much orange plumbing and nick nacks can cause STN in acropora. Something to be aware of. Opening the door to my sump... via GIPHY 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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