Opinions on top offs/float valves

[bamburgb]

So currently the way I have my set up is my RODI goes into a 30 gallon container in the garage controlled using a float valve, then lines ran under the house to a 5 gallon bucket under the tank again controlled using a float valve which then uses a ATO to top off the tank. 

In the last 6 months I have flooded my living room 4 times or so (at least 35 gallons each time) because my ATO malfunctions causing it to pump a lot of fresh water into the sump and overfilling it. Im thinking about removing the 30 gallon and the 5 gallon containers and just putting a float valve in the sump directly to get rid of the ATO. Anyone have any horror stories with a float valve failing and flooding everything?

[Burningbaal]

you could, but I'd mostly just plan on getting a better ATO. There are many today that have a backup sensor on them, even two backups sometimes. The Tunze osmolator is surely the most famous, but my ebay (Kamoer) ATO is very similar, the ATK does it with extra safeguards, and many others.

for the tldr: skip to the last paragraph

They basically work by having two sensors, often the backup is a mechanical float sensor. Generally, when the main optical sensor is dry, it turns on the pump, when that pump sensor is dry, it turns off the pump. If the backup sensor gets wet, it stops the pump (even if it thinks the main sensor is dry) and usually sounds an audible alarm. Many also track a history of recent fill times and if the current fill is substantially longer than normal, it will stop the pump and sound the alarm.

The ATK adds a further backup that the incoming water line goes through a float valve so if the whole system fails, the float valve should close the incoming hose when the water level raises especially high. 

For you, I'd start by leaving everything you have intact and adding a float valve as a backup. like you said "just putting a float valve in the sump directly", I'd say to do that but don't remove the ATO. this way if the ATO is trying to add water, but the water level has raised really high, the float valve will stop it. If you take the ATO off and replace it with the float valve, you have exactly one point of failure to end up in a flood. if you add a float valve, you get an extra layer of defense.

Furthermore, I would add a ball valve on the line from the 30g to the 5g and generally leave it closed. this way if all the ATO/float valve system fails, you can only have 5 extra gallons dumped into the sump...a smaller mess. Every couple days, you can open the ball valve and let it fill the 5g bucket for a little while (the bucket's float valve will stop it at the right time), and you can close the ball valve at your leisure. Furthermore, if you have any kind of controller (or a solenoid and a mechanical outlet timer), you can set a solenoid to only open a few minutes at a time. I have my reef-pi controller set so it only turns on my ATO for 5 minutes every hour (I might drop that to 2 or 3 minutes, actually). It only takes it about 30 seconds to fill an hour's worth of evaporation, and this is an additional measure to limit the potential flood. You can get a similar effect with a solenoid to ensure the water can only flow a few minutes at a time.

In any case, I'd make sure you're adding layers of defense rather than replacing one layer with a different one. You could add a controlled solenoid on the line from the 30g to the bucket so it fills the bucket for 20 minutes a day (for example), maybe during the time you're likely to be home (remember the float valve should stop the fill when it's full regardless of the time). Add a timer on your ATO to only run it certain minutes an hour, add a float above the ATO water level as a backup in case the ATO over-adds.

[Cobalt]

The manual float shutoff valves are notoriously sketchy. Also the float is not enough to shut off the supply, you RO needs to have that 4-way valve thing installed ( I forget what’s it’s called).

ATO systems need double redundancy.

i have that the float combined with the flood guardian. :

https://www.marinedepot.com/xp-aqua-ro-di-flood-guardian-electronic-auto-shut-off-valve-kit-aka-the-marriage-saver

[Cobalt]

Edit: never mind your to setup wasn’t the failure point

[spectra]

Spectrapure...........................https://www.spectrapure.com/product/new-ultra-precise-auto-top-off-system-with-magnetic-probe-holder-llc-uplc-ato-115/

 

yeah it is not cheap.............been running one for 3 years now.............have a 30 gallon ato container in my garage also next to my RO unit...........7 feet below my tank and 20 feet away.........thing works like a charm..........

[kilmca]

my personal experience with using gravity to top of my tank has worked well for the last 15 years.  If you can get your RODI reservoir higher than you sump i would recommend that.  I have to clean the top of float valve once a month because i run a kalk reactor thru it but before i ran kalk thru it i never cleaned it.  I also run a Tunze Osmolator on a QT setup and that has worked well too but i prefer keeping it simple with the reservoir and float valve.  IME if the float valve fails it fails closed cause it gets clogged with kalk but again that's my experience.  

[Gil&Fin]

If you can configure your set up for gravity feed, that would have my vote as well.  There is much less than can go wrong.  That said, it is not fool-proof.  I've had my float clog as well, and I don't use kalk.  It is easy to notice it though, as the sump level will go down, and the reservoir levels will stay the same.

[Paratore]

My dad and I both run versions of RODI straight to a float value on the tank.

 

My dads setup: RODI literally straight to a float valve in the sump. He has had it like this for over 10 years and has never had an issue.

 

My setup: my dads was a little too risky for me. So I go from RODI to a always closed marine solenoid (cheap on Amazon’s). The solenoid is controlled by an electronic float valve. Once the electronic float valve says “open” the solenoid opens and allows water to flow which then goes to a float valve in the sump.

 

In my mind this has roughly three safety steps.

1) the solenoid is always off this cutting the flow off.

2) say it gets stuck on. There is then a mechanical float valve to close off the water.

3) my electronic float value has a back up so if the water level ever gets too high, the power to the solenoid gets cut off. This cutting flow off again.

 

I have been running my setup for about a year.

 

Here is a photo of my setup. Excuse the messing wires [emoji23]

In the back right of the sump are the electronic float valve

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bicyclebill]

I do exactly what Cody does, with one additional safety of the solenoid being plugged into a timer that comes on for 15 minutes four times a day. I do that mainly so that my ro runs for at least a couple minutes to clear out the filters each time it operates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paratore]

I do exactly what Cody does, with one additional safety of the solenoid being plugged into a timer that comes on for 15 minutes four times a day. I do that mainly so that my ro runs for at least a couple minutes to clear out the filters each time it operates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh you reminded me. Using my apex, the electrical float valves are only allowed to “open” ,aka release the solenoid, two times a day. Once in the AM from 8-9 and in the evening from 8-9. This helps accomplish the same thing as quoted above.
Basically power is off 22 hours a day to my electrical floats making it “impossible” for the solenoid to open.

I like Bills idea of cleaning out the filters. Might switch it to just once a day.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xxkenny90xx]

All great advice. My set up is a little simpler, I only use a 10g tank for my ato tank and if it ever fails then it fills my sump to the top but doesn't overflow. 

[Mandinga]

Tunze.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bamburgb]

So the Float valve I have for my top off failed again today flooding my living room and under my tank and filling the sump with another ~35 gallons of fresh water so decision has been made to put a different type of float in the tank and get rid of the pump fed top off.

[SuncrestReef]

4 hours ago, bamburgb said:

So the Float valve I have for my top off failed again today flooding my living room and under my tank and filling the sump with another ~35 gallons of fresh water so decision has been made to put a different type of float in the tank and get rid of the pump fed top off.

Do you use any type of controller?  My Apex won't let the ATO run more than 3 minutes regardless of what the water level sensor is reporting.  It has 4 layers of safeguards: 

1. Low optical sensor
2. High optical sensor
3. 3 minute timer
4. Float valve

 

[bamburgb]

No I don’t have a controller thought about getting one but just to expensive for me right now.