SuncrestReef Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Neptune just announced today that they will begin shipping Trident reagent refills to online vendors such as BRS, and they will sell a 6-month pack for $99.99, so a big discount over the normal $44 2-month supply. See the announcement here at about 18 minutes into the live feed: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Tavan Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I still can’t get a trident... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Great news, making my decision more complicated! So many good options! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibondy Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I am signed up on all waiting lists I am aware of and still no call to purchase one. Actually thinking about going with MindStream, I love Neptune products, but I am not sure I do want to keep playing this waiting game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuncrestReef Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, ibondy said: I am signed up on all waiting lists I am aware of and still no call to purchase one. Actually thinking about going with MindStream, I love Neptune products, but I am not sure I do want to keep playing this waiting game. Mindstream looks pretty cool, but at this time it doesn't integrate with any controllers or dosers to automate the pumps based on test results. To me that's the biggest advantage of the Trident. I have it configured to increase or decrease my 2-part dosing based on the actual test results. Mindstream's web site says they "will offer automated doser control at some point in the future" and they are "developing partnerships with key aquarium equipment providers for controller integration". There's no indication on how long that may take. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 The array of stuff mindstream is testing is incredible! I am a long time user and believer of APEX, but reefbot's flexibility is huge! Tough decisions for sure, what a great time we are in. From zero to many options seemingly overnight! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuncrestReef Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 54 minutes ago, TheClark said: The array of stuff mindstream is testing is incredible! I am a long time user and believer of APEX, but reefbot's flexibility is huge! Tough decisions for sure, what a great time we are in. From zero to many options seemingly overnight! I agree. I wonder if Neptune is being cooperative with Mindstream and Reefbot to allow them to integrate with Apex? If those products could integrate to allow control of dosing pumps or other Apex-controlled components it would be incredible how much you could do. But that would also make the Trident less appealing since it's limited to Alk, Ca, and Mg, which is why I wonder about their openness or resistance to 3rd party integrations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Right! For example I have my apex connected to smart things, and this enables all kinds of integrations. So in theory a guy could also connect smartthings to mindstream/reefbot etc and trigger events against the APEX. We all benefit when the vendors play in the bigger IOT marketplace. The more devices talk, the more power (and potential screwups) exist. Also it reduces vendor lock, APEX plays in the space, the other devices can to. With IOT I could go and change my setpoints based on results from any solution. However, speaking of screwups, I much prefer a notification and manual intervention for something like this. Not likely that I will be automatically tweaking the CR, results will cause me to investigate, then decide what to do. But that is the thing, we all have different approaches. Flexibility is good! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibondy Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I would have a hard time trusting Apex to control ALK , CA and magnesium dossing in my tank. There would have to be some serious safety in the place. Every equipment can and will fail. I spoke to Neptune Systems at ReefPalooza this weekend and it sounded like they are looking at MindStream more like a competition than collaboration partner. We actually discussed MindStream and they are well aware of their journey and product. I am afraid this industry is not ready for IoT or any type of standardization, at this time. Everyone company is developing their own apps and systems, and they do not typically expose easy integration points. Look at Red Sea with their new product lineup. All controlled by their own app. 😞 I think, the company which open sources their platform and enables easy integration with products will win the market in the long run. There is no need for every light, pump, dossing or other vendors create their own software and platforms. Other industries are already in that journey! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 That's cool you had a chance to grill them. Agree! Open will win eventually and is definitely preferred. If Alexa and Smart Things can control my apex though, it's already well on the way to open, accidental or not. That said, even though possible, I sure don't want APEX adjusting my CR flow or PH, just alerting me After a long period of successful alerts and testing, I would cautiously branch out into automation responses.... Just all personal preference I suppose, flexibility is key and open is flexible! Good stuff, good discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuncrestReef Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 @TheClark FYI: Neptune's recommended approach for Trident users with calcium reactors is to still do controlled dosing of 2-part to simply smooth out the daily swing. So the CR is still supplying the bulk of calcium and alkalinity at the flow and PH you set, but the 2-part only supplements it a tiny bit during mid-day when uptake is at its highest. Trident fine-tunes the delivery by controlling a DOS but it doesn't mess with your CR settings. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Thanks @SuncrestReef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibondy Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Got a response from MindStream and it is another closed system, plus they want you to finance their operations for 60 days 😞 Is there are way to access the data directly via API or any other means. The only way to access the data is through the web app. Would you have a web hooks available for alerts? All alerts are sent through the web app either to your phone (via text) or your email. Do your apps handle nonstandard font sizes? Currently a big disappointment with your competition. We have both content and visual designers who designed the user interface as critically as possible. The web app is designed with all the latest protocols. Will my cc be charged when unit ships or when I order? Your credit will be charged at the time of order entry. I was seriously considering MindStream, but I will keep waiting for Neptune or something else coming to the market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Z Reef Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 With all of this in general, I’m surprised no one has hacked any of this software to make it more open source. With mindstream, the data it collects is in its app or web interface. Seems like someone could write some sort of software to scrape that data off of site to back feed it to another control system (like apex...or ReefPi, oh my!). Maybe I’m stuck in the 90s where someone always created CD key generators, back door executables, etc. Why aren’t those dudes into reef tanks dang it!!! 😂 Plus idk about everyone else, but all this subscription crap is annoying. I feel like everything these days takes a subscription. Even though the Trident does take reagent on some timeframe, I feel less annoyed with that then having to add another subscription to the pile... 😑 end rant - thus far if I had a choice I’d do apex/trident 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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