Nitrate eliminator?

[aqua-ed]

Thanks for all the help so far, I'm loving this noob forum.

So I can't get my nitrates at bay. I've done 50% water changes with RO water, but they just climb back up to 80-100ppm within a short time. What can I do? Has anyone ever used AZ Nitrate Eliminator? It supposedly clumps it up and takes it out with the protein skimmer. Does it work, or just another snake oil?

I have several corals and two BTAs (it split just this weekend!) and I'm worried the high nitrate levels is bad for them, but the constant 50% water change will shock them.

Thanks again!

[Ronjunior]

Is this a new tank setup? Heavily stocked? Size? How often are the water changes current/past. Never heard of the nitrate eliminator. You can setup a refugium in your sump with some chaeto to help keep some of the numbers down though, but 80 to 100 seems awfully high. You might test your ro/di water to see how clean it's coming out too. If your using a pinpoint monitor, maybe it needs calibrating?

[aqua-ed]

I have a 30 high aquarium, without a sump (thats a future project, maybe). I got the tank already established from someone else, but it was neglected for a while with an eel in it, so the nitrates from that were probably high. I have had it myself for about 4 months. I don't think the water was changed in over a year before I got it.

It has 2 clowns, a goby, 3 snails, 4 hermits, 5 nassarius, 2 bta's.

Is a sump something that can be added without cutting/drilling/slicing/gouging?

[Nyles]

what are you using for nitrate removal? Skimmer? Sounds like a case of overfeeding to me, my 24 is very temperamental to feeding, feed sparingly.

[siskiou]

I've tried the AZNO3 and even though I read a lot of positive things about it, it had a really strange effect on my tank (producing a chemical, bleachy smell) after 9 days.

 

It prompted me to do several large water changes, bringing my nitrates down nicely (didn't last, though. Regular smaller water changes just keep it at about 30-40ppm).

[aqua-ed]

Hmmm... it might be too much food. I feed the clowns twice a day, usually a mixture brine shrimp, plankton, and flakes.

I have a protein skimmer with a nitrate removal pad in it.

[dsoz]

If you want a clump of chaeto, I have some extra that I could bring to work with me in Woodburn. If you can make it to Woodburn some day after work, I can have it here for you. You don't need a fancy sump/refugium. I just have it shoved in the corner of my display behind the rock.

 

You don't have to drill, you can use an overflow down to a sump. I have a used one of these as well that I can let go for cheep. All you would need is a pump to return the water to your display. Let me know, and I can help you get ideas for this too.

 

Is this tank set up in your classroom?

 

dsoz

[aqua-ed]

Thanks for the offer of chaeto, but I'm still doing my student teaching in Corvallis, so Woodburn isn't to close. I'm sure I can find someone nearby with some.

This tank isn't for my classroom, yet...

I still don't have one (a classroom, that is)

It's good to know that an overflow/sump isn't that hard. I'll keep that in mind, it would certainly make my life a little easier.

[Nyles]

I've tried the AZNO3 and even though I read a lot of positive things about it, it had a really strange effect on my tank (producing a chemical, bleachy smell) after 9 days.

 

It prompted me to do several large water changes, bringing my nitrates down nicely (didn't last, though. Regular smaller water changes just keep it at about 30-40ppm).

 

Keep in mind most of those products are a sulfur based product, water changes will be a much better thought, secondly increase skimming efficiency, third feed less and less often.

 

If your curious about sulfur based denitrification search google for "sulfur reactor DIY" Much better at denitrating but it is a DIY and your only masking the problem, but you only have to buy the stuff once every couple years max and its easy to get locally. Personally I just had no3 problems and it took about 5-33% WC's to fix. one change a week. This was cheaper and easier than any other way, and more natural, but time will only tell if it fixes the issue that popped up.

[wegotjs]

You might want to do some research on RC, I had a similar problem with a 30 hex could never get

my nitrates below 20-30 ppm no matter what. I was running a 20g sump and would change out 40gallons and by the next day would be back to the same #'s (20-30).I would feed Once every 5 days trying to get it down. No succes. I found that on RC there were quite a few people with similar

problems with tanks that were around 30g and had tall tanks which really limited the surface area.

I thought going with a large sump would make a differance but it didn't.This problem might be caused by overfeeding or something else but I suspect that the tank itself is causing alot of the problems and you may never get them down.

Jon

[Nyles]

That could be leeching of no3 from Live rock as well, if its old live rock. Just another thought.

[impur]

Or the sand. With an eel, i'd guess the sandbed needs changing. If that didn't work, i'd cook the rock.

 

 

I had a 29gal for 2 years with no nitrate problems.

[chewie]

One of the best ways to get nitrates down is to RELIGIOUSLY turkey baste the live rock, change filter socks 2-3 times per week, and skim like crazy.

 

It's a lot of work but it does pay off.

[aqua-ed]

Ok, how do I "turkey baste" rock? What exactly does that entail?

 

 

 

What about a coil denitrator? Are they kosher to have along side live rock and corals?

I've looked at them and something like that would be easy for me to rig up.

[aqua-ed]

Here is something else, too. My nitrites are always zero, so would that imply that it isn't overfeeding?

[chewie]

Turkey basting consists of using a turkey baster to blow out all the detritus in the nooks & crannies in the live rock.

 

In the ocean, MILLIONS of gallons of water surging back and forth against the rock keep it clean. It's almost impossible to do that in a square box of water.

 

Basting the rocks will help keep the rock doing what it does best. If it's all clogged up with detritus, it won't be as efficient at converting NO3 to Nitrogen.

 

An over sized skimmer doesn't hurt either.

[siskiou]

I'm amazed how much stuff accumulates in/on my rock!

It never seems to get less, though.

I swear my rock is hollow and filled with a never ending supply of gunk!

[dsoz]

Susanne-

A lot of the gunk is actually dead bacteria that are sloughing off. That is why there is a never ending supply... bacteria multiply even faster than rabbits.

 

Aqua-ed

Nitrites would not indicate over-feeding. Once the nitrogen cycle is established, there is almost never any detectable nitrites in a tank. The bacteria will convert it to nitrate too fast.

 

Have you tried stirring up the sand (crushed coral) to get all the gunk that is under the substrate? As long as it is under there it will continue to add to you nitrate problems.

 

As to the coil denitrator.... I don't know. Is that one of the really long coils of tubing that has low flow and you add a carbon source (sugar or alcohol) to help lower nitrates? I have heard of them, but I think that they are considered obsolete. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

dsoz

[siskiou]

Susanne-

A lot of the gunk is actually dead bacteria that are sloughing off. That is why there is a never ending supply... bacteria multiply even faster than rabbits.

[/quote

 

Ah! No wonder! DOH!

And here I thought eventually I'd have clean rock if I kept "basting" it.

I just wish I knew how to keep the stuff from settling, without causing a sandstorm in my tank.

[chewie]

Even without sand it still accumulates in the rock. It's just easier to stir up, and get it to the filter sock, and then the skimmer.

[blown65]

Not that I'm saying to do this but you might wanna read up on it on ReefCentral on vodka dosing to develop the bacteria that feeds on nitrates and phosphates. Most there say you should have a good skimmer to do so, and with a 30 gallon tank you will be using very little of it. (get a good measuring device like the syringes that come with salifert kits)

[aqua-ed]

I use acetic acid (vinegar) in my kalkwasser, which I think is similar in idea. It provides carbon for the nitrate reducing bacteria. Anybody else have experience using acetic acid? I've never heard of using vodka until now. Sounds intriguing though...

[impur]

I used it on my 29gal for 2 years. But my reason was to get more ca/alk out of the kalk rather than feeding the bacteria. I had great results with it.

[aqua-ed]

How much did you use? I use 15ml per quart and drip it in real slow (I drip about 3 quarts in 24 hrs)

[blown65]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1225324

 

 

This is the dosing most follow by

 

 

Hi,

 

Don't know when the article will be online, however, I can provide you with the dosing recommendations, but it's more safe to wait for the article. I mean, it's your tank.

 

DSB tanks react very sensitively on vodka supplementation, thus be careful! If you run a DSB without a skimmer, you should add one to your tank.

 

Vodka should be supplemented daily during the lighting phase.

 

You can start with 0.1 mL/100 L for the first three days.

Then you increase the vodka volume to 0.2 mL/100 L for day 4-7.

Subsequently to this initial week you increase the vodka dose by 0.5 mL per total tank volume (this is important, do not dose on a per 100L basis, but on the total tank volume!) every week.

 

So, e.g. for a 500 L tank:

 

day 1-3: 0.1 * 5 = 0.5 mL

day 4-7: 0.2 * 5 = 1 mL

2. week (day 8-14): 1 mL + 0.5 mL = 1.5 mL

3. week: 1.5 mL + 0.5 mL = 2 mL.

 

After these 3 weeks you should recognize changes in the nutrient levels (nitrate, phosphate). If the nutrient levels are still unchanged, you should further increase the dose by 0.5 mL per total tank volume.

As soon as you recognize either nitrate or phosphate to start dropping you shouldn't further increase the vodka volume but watch the nutrient levels, even in the first three weeks.

 

You should log your nutrient measurements and monitor the nutrient levels on a regular basis (every 3 days).

 

As Heinz said, skimming is important and you will recognize your skimmer to work much more effectively.

 

I have posted the dosing recommendation as I fear that people start dosing vodka by using too high volumes. I still recommend to wait for the article.