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WHAT NOW? My battle with PH04


Nyles

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OK I have had this new tank up and running since March, since then the Hair algae is just outrageous. I have kept my mag, cal, sal, nit, am, alk all balanced and in good shape but phosphates where out of whack, so I have been using Phosban to control them for about a week, the PHo4 is undetectable on tests as of when I added the phasban but that doesnt mean the hair algae isnt absorbing some before the phosban is in the refugium, and I have noticed even know there is no PH04 there is hair algae growth. I have now replaced everything in the tank but the liverock. The liverock was cured for about a month in a tank prior to going "Live" but I still think the LR is leaching PH04. I am under the belief that Im going to need to "Cure" the rock long term.

 

Anyone been in this situation? How long should it take to kill off the hair algae with phosban? and if I can't how in the hell am I going to scrape many many living things off all my rock so it can be cured? I can cut stuff off but we are talking some serious recordia, shrooms, zoos here.... Im really not wanting to do this if I don't have to. My patience is running very thing, so is my wallet.

 

This is the most fustraiting thing I have had to deal with so far.... help me out.

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been there done that, hair algae would take about 25-50 SH to keep even with. I had 2 the size of baseballs and they didn't even put a dent in it eating 24-6... I have about 125 blue legs, sea cucumbers, 40 scarlets, emeralds, and god knows what else, they cant even put a dent in it. Its out of control.

 

Im giung to have to retire the LR till it cures "cooks"

 

 

I might be getting some of your LR but I will have to much after the cooking is done. Its always something.

 

As asked Any other suggestions? I have tangs that eat it and LM blenny, and a few other things but they just cant keep up.

 

I use a toothbrush and get all the visible Hair out but it just regrows, almost can watch it grow right before my eyes, sad really. I get pissed then.... just give up.

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I dont even know... is there something Im forgeting? I have tried more water changes... more testing... its all in vein... Any help would be .. well... helpful. the previous owner had the same problem before I bought it, same LR and tank, I put in new sand all around, new pumps, new system. other than LR.

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been there done that, hair algae would take about 25-50 SH to keep even with. I had 2 the size of baseballs and they didn't even put a dent in it eating 24-6... I have about 125 blue legs, sea cucumbers, 40 scarlets, emeralds, and god knows what else, they cant even put a dent in it. Its out of control.

 

Im giung to have to retire the LR till it cures "cooks"

 

 

I might be getting some of your LR but I will have to much after the cooking is done. Its always something.

 

As asked Any other suggestions? I have tangs that eat it and LM blenny, and a few other things but they just cant keep up.

 

I use a toothbrush and get all the visible Hair out but it just regrows, almost can watch it grow right before my eyes, sad really. I get pissed then.... just give up.

Stay away from scrubbing, try the horrible and tedius process of picking it off by hand...You should listen to the reefcast Melev (Marc) talks about this... If you pick it off make sure you have a cup of RO/DI water next to you so you rinse your fingers before you put them back in the tank. The reason for not scrubbing, is that it will not get the "roots" and may spread more spores through out the tank...So I would try pulling it off, just slowly working at it.

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Stay away from scrubbing' date=' try the horrible and tedius process of picking it off by hand...You should listen to the reefcast Melev (Marc) talks about this... If you pick it off make sure you have a cup of RO/DI water next to you so you rinse your fingers before you put them back in the tank. The reason for not scrubbing, is that it will not get the "roots" and may spread more spores through out the tank...So I would try pulling it off, just slowly working at it.[/quote']

 

 

ya I do that till its so bad I risk it overtaking corals (about 3 weeks). then it slowly takes over. I have only discovered PHo4 about a week ago (as I sispected but didnt have access to ph04 test), so I am just picking it for now. but it seems to not be slowing down at all, even if tests show "0" PH04..

 

I just keep saying... patience is my friend, but my fustraitions are on a medium simmer. Wife knows to stand back.

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I know that people never seem to want to hear this but here is how I got rid of mine in my softy tank.

 

I started using 3 Prodobio products, Bioptim, Bio Digest, and Reef Booster. Within 3 to 4 weeks all algae was gone. If you are interested the only place that I was able to find it at was Robsreef.com.

 

Rich

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ya I do that till its so bad I risk it overtaking corals (about 3 weeks). then it slowly takes over. I have only discovered PHo4 about a week ago (as I sispected but didnt have access to ph04 test), so I am just picking it for now. but it seems to not be slowing down at all, even if tests show "0" PH04..

 

I just keep saying... patience is my friend, but my fustraitions are on a medium simmer. Wife knows to stand back.

That is understandable. You might try what Rich suggested. He was telling me about it and might be worth a try. it will only be around 50 bucks to try it. MIght be worth the money insted of all your time to tear the rock out and "cook" it.

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I know that people never seem to want to hear this but here is how I got rid of mine in my softy tank.

 

I started using 3 Prodobio products, Bioptim, Bio Digest, and Reef Booster. Within 3 to 4 weeks all algae was gone. If you are interested the only place that I was able to find it at was Robsreef.com.

 

Rich

His tank does look good!!!

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I know that people never seem to want to hear this but here is how I got rid of mine in my softy tank.

 

I started using 3 Prodobio products, Bioptim, Bio Digest, and Reef Booster. Within 3 to 4 weeks all algae was gone. If you are interested the only place that I was able to find it at was Robsreef.com.

 

Rich

 

 

I have read your posts on this, however I though it was for SPS growth and health relation. I am ok with ripping out LR and getting new at this point, just need to know if there is any other alternatives other than cooking.??

 

If I decided to go with the Prodobio that can take 3 weeks to 11 months what is the cost?

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Prodobio in general does increase your growth and color of your SPS but this is through the addition of coral food and lower nutrients. I use it in my softy & SPS tank and it works great in both.

 

Here is a breakdown of what the 3 products do and the cost of each:

 

Reef Booster: (1 ampoule a week $13.99 for 12 ampoule)

REEF BOOSTER is a complete nutrient supplement containing all the essentials for the development of invertebrates which basically or partially feed on micro-plankton including corals in which symbiotic algae - Zooxanthelles - live and for which a micro-plankton booster is necessary.

REEF BOOSTER contains very high concentrations of the polyunsaturated fatty acid groups which all marine organisms need. A few drops in the food of marine fish makes it more appetising - an effective solution when starting to feed difficult or recently imported fish.

 

BIOPTIM: (1 vile ampoule 2 weeks $12.99 for 12 ampoule)

BIO TRACE and BIOPTIM provide all the micro-nutrients that are necessary BUT which have already been consumed by the life in the aquarium during a previous biological digestion: selected amino acids, enzymes, natural vitamins (riboflavin), and surface agents from plants to facilitate the membranous absorption of the components by the cells.

 

They provide also trace elements: SULPHUR for proteins, IRON for plants and fish blood, COBALT for B vitamins and BORON for many products metabolised during tissue-building and organic breakdown, Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese, Molybdenum, Potassium, Zinc... .

 

BIO DIGEST: (1 ampoule every 15 days $12.99 for 12 ampoule)

BIO DIGEST is composed with nitrifying and dénitrifying bacterial strains selected for their capacity to transform the ammonia into nitrites, the nitrites into nitrates and nitrates into nitrogen. They are guaranteed free from genetic mutations.

 

Bacterial selection

The work of the different bacterial strains is controlled by the genetic information included in the DNA of each cell. Strains are chosen for their efficiency and their compatibility in fresh and marine water. Each strain starts a process which is continued by another strain until the toxic nitrogen compounds (ammonia and nitrite) are broken down into harmless nitrate.

 

So, for around $50 you get enough to last for around 12 weeks (also depends on the size of your tank).

 

Rich

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So the big question is, how does a program like this "remove" PH04 out of my rock?

 

I think Im still going to have to cook it to get Phosphates out, limiting my intake of nutrients is great but I don't think its the source of my problem, I feed pretty sparingly already and my nitrates are extremely low (undetectable).Im going to pull part of the rockout let it cook for a week and test if for PH04. If its high I think I will need to rip it all out.

 

So for the big question do I just chisel the crap out of my rocks to get all the living life off them?

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Also read up on vodka dosing though it's not the safest option. Upgrading the skimmer may be in hand as well. Scrub the rock in a seperate bucket, swish it, dip and swish in fresh salt water, then back to the tank.

 

How is your RO unit?

 

keep basting and skimming like crazy, use a micron bag if you can

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All done already, the skimmer is bigger than needed by over 100 gallons and works superb (ASM g-3), testing water backs this up.

 

6-stage ro/di - tested clean, retested many times

 

Dunked rock and cleaned 2 times now (once when I started system and again about 3 weeks ago)

 

I am using a prefilter bag to catch hair as it drops in sump then water hits skimmer for final cleaning, on to refugium then to the return sump area.

 

 

Update:

So tested for phosphates last night my reading is still "0" PHo4. but It appears hair algae is still growing... However my corals are still growing, other than the lawn that has to be mowed weekly everything is fine. LOL.

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But aren't I just becoming dependant on a product to muffle an existing problem? I would have to keep using this product till the pho4 is all absorbed out of the rock right? If it ever does.... or boom I get a wonderful green lawn again, right?

 

Wouldn't it be more cost effective to just get to the root of the problem?

 

I'm not arguing, love your advice, just trying to look at it from all angles. I also don't want to cover the problem with a temp solution making me dependable on another product because I was to lazy to do it right. I'm the kind of person that just wants to do it right the first time.

 

:confused:

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I'm not sure what to tell you on that, I guess it would be really dependant on what you are putting into your tank and what you are skimming out. With a big enough skimmer you shouldn't have an algae problem anyway.

 

On my SPS tank the skimmer is way over kill for the size of tank, but I've never had an algae problem in it. With my softy tank the skimmer was to small or just right, but I was always fighting with algae. So I guess its all what you have on your system.

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So since my rocks are old and have phosphate leeching from them its now a faulty skimmer even though my water is clean? As I stated the skimmer is oversized quite a bit.

 

I beleive the water is being cleaned fine as to why my no4 readings are always 0 however as the ph04 is leeched from the rock the hair algae is on the rock at a convenient place to intercept prior to my filtration, thus why I have clean readings and still have HA. The skimmer is way overkill for my application and as I have identified the problem I am looking for a solution, not the cause of the problem from something else. I have already troubleshoot all other things, including the replace main tank sand, replace refugium sand, new big skimmer, new pumps, feeding regime and food quality test, water input quality and light.

 

Let me re-interate I just want to know if there is a solution to removing the phosphate from the rock without cooking it. Sounds like your product is the only other solution, but to me its more of a band aide similar to the phosban is right now.

 

In short I will do a mass water change and cut feeding from 3 times a week to once a week and see what happens. If this don't do it, the old crappy rock is comin out and I will just bite the bullet for new rock, cook this rock and throw it in my office tank. I know this will fix it I just wish there was and easier / less aggressive way to go about it.

 

No harm intended to your post, I know your just trying to help, my fustrations are just going overboard as I read I realize there will probably be no shortcutting the problem. As when these rocks where in someone else tank they had the same problem... (wife) Live and learn I guess.

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I would be really suprised if your old rock was the problem. I just don't beleive that rock goes bad.

 

I missed the part about your skimmer be over sized, sorry.

 

I guess my question is what are you feeding your tank and how much?

 

On my 50G tank I feed them everyday, I tend to feed a lot and the only reason that I'm doing this is that I found that my tank had way to low of nutirents. With the extra food and the addtives I'm getting a LOT better colors with my SPS and I still have no algae. The 2 things that I think make that possible on my tank is the overkill on skimming and the additives.

 

Personaly I don't feel that the additives are bandaids to a problem, I think they are more of enhancement. Our tanks are such closed loop systems with no real external inputs, in the Ocean the water is always being filtered and replaced. I really believe that our tanks are very dirty compared to the ocean...

 

Rich

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Completly agree with the last statement, and I am considering them but not for a solution to this problem but for a healthy environment in the future.

 

I feed cyclopeez once weekly to sps

Reef Chili once weekly to lps and sps

every other day I feed a shrimp of some sort (half cube) or Emerald Entray (aprox half cube)

Kelp twice weekly

Foods are rinsed in RO/DI prior to being dropped in tank and I only feed sparingly.

 

Fish are looking healthy and corals are doing superb.

I am going to be adding a full calcium reactor system (Knop C) this month

 

So big water change today (80 gallons or so) and wheening the fish off food and see what happens. Also my water changes are 50 gallons monthly I am going to change it to 25 gallons bi-weekly program to help introduce trace elements on a more steady basis.

 

Livestock excluding lps-sps are:

 

1 yellow tail damsel I cant catch

Yellow tang

Royal blue tang

6-line wrasse

True Perc

Pearly Jawfish

Lawnmower Blennie

2 sea cucumbers

3 sifting stars

8-10 fancy serpent stars

1 Blue Linkia

1 brittle star

110 blue leg hermits

40 skarlets

10 red

Clams of all kind

2 cleaner shrimp

2 peppermints

2 sexy shrimp

2 emerald crabs

2 sea hares

 

God only knows what else. but I probably forgot something

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