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The classic "[language filter] is this red stuff, and why is it taking over my tank" thread


Taylorhardy1

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Alright everyone, I have an issue I am absolutely stumped on. I have a cyano outbreak that just won't go away, it seems to be progressing to a combination of Dino and cyano at this point, and my methods of treatment have not worked in the slightest. This issue started once I changed from treated tap water, to Rodi water as I had assumed the tap although reading a consistently low tds(5-20) was provoking a gha issue I had. Switched to Rodi, and wasn't able to track phos/nitrates well due to the nutrient lock created by the gha. Continued with Rodi, and very light vodka/vinegar dosing. (3ml/day) picked up a seahare, and the gha was eaten, and whatever was left starved out over a few weeks, then in came the cyano bloom. At this point the nutrient lock created by the gha had been eradicated and I was able to test nutrients levels again. The day I removed my seahare I had only noticed a few small thin patches of cyano. Didn't think much of it, turned up my flow a small amount more, and thought my tank was starting to really settle in. Throughout the next week I tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phos daily. Ammonia and nitrite remained undetectable, and nitrates jumped from 5-10 throughout the week, until settling around 5, phos read 0.05-0.08. Once I had my phosphates and nitrates exactly where I wanted them, I continued carbon dosing at the existing rate, and cut back on testing. Flash forward a week, my entire rock structure was coated in a thick mat of cyano. Nutrient levels remained steady where I wanted. Siphoned out as much as I could during a 25% wc, and did a 3 day blackout, followed by a recommended dose of chemiclean, and then another 25% waterchange 3 days later. Around this time my nitrates and phos became undetectable, and my acros started to look pale, lps and softies were really unhappy. I quit carbon dosing, and monitored closely for the return of nitrates and phosphates while feeding heavily daily. At this point I decided it was time to test my fresh mixed water for imbalances. From both the tap, and rodi I had ideal levels. Phosphates were at 0.01 in the tap, and undetectable with rodi so I quickly ruled them out for causing the issue. At this point the cyano had returned just as heavily as before, so I dosed 2x the recommended amount of chemiclean. This go round it just seemed to make the cyano almost turn into a red hair algae. Waited 1 week from the day of the dose, and did a 50% water change siphoning out as much cyano as possible, and started vacuuming small sections of my sandbed. Normally I don't touch my sandbed because I have various sand sifters, and flow high enough to keep the top layer slowly moving. Didn't pull a whole lot out, but there was a bit of detritus that came up. Since the issue has arisen I've done atleast 10-20% weekly waterchanges. After the second treatment failed, I went back to tap water to attempt to benefit from the small amount of p04 it carried. Now we're where I'm at today. The rocks are almost entirely covered in a mat of cyano. There appears to be Dino, and random patches of cyano all over the sandbed. With everything else I've tested, the only viable explanation I can come up with is a massive imbalance in the Redfield ratio. I'm feeding 2 cubes of frozen daily, dosing 5ml of phyto, 5ml of zoo, and 2 frozen silversides to my eel every other day. I'm still having trouble getting my n03 and p04 back up, though whenever I do it seems to be 1 or the other. I've pulled my filter socks, turned my skimmer off, and am letting my macro in my fuge grow till it dies back off to help theoretically boost nutrient levels. I currently am not running any sort of mechanical filtration aside from whatever my macro ends up catching. I'm not sure which steps to take from here in order to solve this issue. At this point I'm convinced that this issue is presenting itself due to lack of nutrients, creating an imbalance of nutrients that can't be controlled or stabilized. Not sure how much of a nutrient lock cyano and Dino can create, but Im definitely having a tough time keeping everything alive and somewhat happy through this. I'm honestly not sure where I should go from here. Worried anything else I do might be the final tipping point that causes a real crash. I've thought about bacteria colonies, but I'm not sure there's enough nutrients for them to take off, and take over. I'm at a loss here. Any advice to how you solved your cyano issues would be greatly appreciated! 

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I should clarify, by tap I mean a regularly maintained ro system designed for drinking water. Anyways, photos of alleged crime scene. Running an air stone in short few minute bursts in my return chamber to help with airation while my skimmer is off. My water isn't nearly as cloudy as the photos appear,  but there is an obvious bacterial bloom.IMG_20180411_132421.thumb.jpg.cfb18b564cdc67fc11a7d4c8801198c3.jpgIMG_20180411_132438.thumb.jpg.fa530d6ddd2bbec3e07670a41a0cc707.jpgIMG_20180411_132517.thumb.jpg.6fb740e24ee815b67f1076e9ffdb2d8f.jpgIMG_20180411_132856.thumb.jpg.fffd5b8abfc1ff98e7067ef2834723e9.jpg

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I had a break out recently, and turned to Chemclean and it was cleared out in 48hrs

did water changes and everything is doing great!! 

I know it’s not something people like to use but ...

better than loosing all my creatures

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Cyano is like anything else in the tank, as long as it has a source of food it can potentially thrive. So the goal in stopping things like this is to find and eliminate its source of food starving it to death or to make the tank uninhabitable by adjusting parameters. My initial thoughts a quarter way through was the food source is most likely in the sand bed, then I read:

Quote

Normally I don't touch my sandbed because I have various sand sifters, and flow high enough to keep the top layer slowly moving

I would suggest maybe as a last ditch effort you might want to consider removing your sandbed for the time being till you get everything under control. I have never had this nasty of a bout with Cyano before, but the few times I have used chemiclean with success but it appears you have already tried that hence for my suggestion :) Thats just my thoughts.

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I'm not sure why it's gotten so bad, I think the vodka dosing fueled it, then my attempts to raise nutrients just helped it explode. Hoping a large water change, with removing a bit of the sandbed helps atleast slow it. I might try some bacteria colonies as well. Anyone have any favorites? 

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Wait wait wait...sorry TLDR all of it but did you run an air stone in the tank constantly while doing the chemiclean dose? It won’t work right if you don’t. It was night and day when I didn’t do that during a treatment, you need it to oxidize and with the skimmer off you need a stone or two at least going full time in the display (not sump).

 

siphon and try that. Report back :fingerscrossed:

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Update: I've been slowly siphoning out my sandbed for the last week. Though most sections of the sandbed have minimally clouded the bucket water, I've come across a few spots where it's turned the water in the bucket nearly black. My sandbed is absolutely the source of my problem. The cyano is beginning to recede, and I still have a 1-2" deep sandbed. Really liking the idea of going bb with the more sand I remove. Some of the best sps tanks I've seen were bb, and I feel it will help make my aquarium look much larger. Plus less sand=less problems, or so seems the general consensus these days anyways.

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I know a lot of stuff can build up in your sand bed and it never be a problem until, Bam! It all hits at once and starts leeching nutrients back into the colum. This especially goes for deep sand beds. 

 

As as far as the chemiclean treatment you did, I alaways was under the impression that you need to do a water change around 24hrs after the initial dosing of chemiclean. Maybe by not doing it until later it makes he treatment less effective?

 

Either way I hope you can get it under control!✌️

Edited by Salted_Waffles
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4 hours ago, Taylorhardy1 said:

My sandbed is absolutely the source of my problem.

As per my earlier post, I had came to the same conclusion.  If you choose to keep some sand, Cut it down to a 1/2" and be sure to vacuum it weekly and you should be fine :D

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I would definitely stop the vodka dosing. You may have done this already, and I may have missed it in the OP. As you seem to be aware, vodka can lead imbalances that result in cyano and/or dino outbreaks. It can cause your nitrates to get too low while not reducing the phosphate very much. In this scenario, cyano is able to out compete other types of algae that normally keep it at bay. Been there, done that!

Removing the sand could help, but I am not sure that it is a long term solution.

Consider an algae scrubber or a chaeto reactor for keeping nutrients from getting too high. (I see that you said that you already have macro, so maybe this was not sufficient..)

I would also try stopping dosing the phyto and zooplankton, in case that is contributing to your problem. I have often had issues with cyano after dosing acropower, so perhaps your supplements are contributing to the cyano issue.

If I were you, I would keep up with the siphoning and water changes, and keep disturbing the cyano/dino wherever you see it. When I had issues, I would use a turkey baster to blast the sand and rockwork every morning and evening, and this seemed to help things correct themselves. A final thought would be to slow down the water changes if the cyano is gone and you start to see dino being establishing, since water changes seem to bolster the growth of some kinds of dino.

Good luck! We've all been through this one time or another.

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My biggest issue was with how low nutrients had gotten. I stopped vodka dosing very early on with this battle. I was getting near the same results as I would with freshly mixed water, and my corals were turning extremely pastel. Having roughly 4 dozen+ species of corals I'm trying my hardest to keep everything happy and alive. When I was heavily feeding to counter the low nutrients, it actually seemed to stunt the cyanos growth for a short period of time, and seemed to leave a positive impact on the corals. As of today I've been able to cut back on feedings, and Ive gotten down to about 1" of sand. The cyano is still very apparent within my system, but I almost feel like I've been able to watch it recede with the more sand I remove. My prized teal tenius colony began to stn/rtn at some point earlier this week, and I had to chop it all up into frags. Hoping all pieces pull through and heal and I can get a good restart on a patchwork colony. The rest of my corals are looking much much better though. My nitrates/phos are once again detectable, and seem to be starting to fall back within the Redfield ratio. Ideally I'd like nitrates at 5, and phos 0.03-0.05. Currently Nitrates are at 10, and phos is at .03. Getting there, but it's definitely been a process. Going to siphon out as much additional sand as I can get with another 10%wc today. I've also stopped dosing everything for the time being, considering I've been doing small daily waterchanges, just enough to keep stability in major elements. Feeding has been cut back to every other day, and my light intensity/ duration has been reduced as well. Hoping to be able to quickly find a good balance once this issue is gone, then kind-of just let my system run on auto pilot for a while. This much maintainence, fighting this ridiculous issue is beginning to burn me out. 😴 

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NoPox over-dosing causes a heavy cyano cycle.  I'd bet money overdoing vodka caused this.  Deep sand beds rule and I completely disagree with a lot of what's been said about them.  I guess they could turn into a time bomb if you abused it by low flow and high waste all the time but those are much different issues.  

Never had an issue and my sand provides a lot to my system.  I also think vacuuming is pretty silly!  Kind of defeating your own goal. 

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I just have a tough time vacuuming and maintaining a sandbed covered mostly in corals, so I never maintained it. I figured a few dozen nassarius snails, a sand sifting starfish, and an eel that's constantly stirring sand would have prevented this issue, but I guess I was wrong. I do run a 2000gph return pump, 2 rw8s at 80% power on the w2 setting, and a hydor gen 3 sweeping the back of my rock structure ran in 45 minute intervals. So I definitely don't think I particularly have a low flow issue. However I have come across some very apparent deadzones through my sandbed that I had no idea existed though. Seems as though the detritus built up in small sections, and just created massive problems. Im gonna try out bare bottom and see how I end up liking it. I figure bare bottom will help make moving the tank much easier in a few months as well. 

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