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Harlequin Shrimp & Asterina's


youcallmenny

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It's just always something, isn't it?  :peace: I have always had asterina's but lately have been hearing disturbing things about them.  After some discussion with @Lexinverts about the matter, I have been watching them more closely and they are on my sps, chewing at the bases of a few of them and killing tissue.  I always assumed this was a nutrient issue or maybe I even was harboring a controlled population of AEFW but never could put my finger on it.  Repeated nasty dips never show any flatworms coming off affected colonies.  Turns out, the sporadic patches I have currently on my sps each have these little stars on them, presumably chewing away.  

He tells me that @goldenbasketreef has verified these as a problem and uses Harlequin's as a biological control.  I'm about to pull the trigger on this myself but first a few questions:

1) I have brittle stars but that's it.  Will these be safe from these shrimp?  

2) Who has them on sale, right now?

3) Am I crazy for thinking that tiny-stars are eating chunks in the base of my sps?  

4) I have cleaner shrimp and a tiger pistol shrimp.  Will Harlequin's fight with either? 

5) This is a question for only people who have used these as asterina control:  Was it worth it? 

I have always loved these shrimp and am excited at the idea of keeping them.  Let me know!  

Edited by youcallmenny
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Harlequins are cool animals and will most likely take care of the Asterina problem but the problem is that they are obligate star eaters. They eat the tube feet off the stars but around 3% of this genus will also eat coral tissue. After they munch all the Asterinas and brittle stars, they will starve out, which is problematic. An ethical way to get around this might be to move them from one of your systems to another or cut a deal with two or three other PNWMAS members to help them keep their Asterina populations under control. It's a bit of a biosecurity risk but might be a better alternative.

The first time I saw these sea stars eating SPS tissue in one of my exhibits, I decided to proactively manage these suckers by manually removing them. Each morning before the lights came on, there would be dozens on the inside of the acrylic. I used a fine-mesh net to harvest and remove them. It took months and short of natural controls, you can never get them all but it made a definite impact. After a while, I only saw them occasionally but kept up with it. I'll admit that this approach is a bit tedious but it does work and it rewards the OCD coralhead that lives in most of us.

Asterinas are mostly photophobic. If you go the manual removal route, use that to your advantage.

 

 

Edited by IntoTheMystic
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Yea the plan was to remove and rehome them but I have never heard of them munching on coral.  That's too bad about the brittle's too.  Well, I guess that idea is out.  I've attempted manual removal before but I felt like I was sticking my finger in the bursting dam.  Hrm.  I definitely was doing it mid-day though so perhaps your method will have better luck.  I'll try that for a while and see how it works.  I imagine that continually removing them allows a small void in the food chain to open up and allow something else to proliferate and out-compete.  Is that the goal?  

Thank you for taking the time to respond.  Your experience carries a lot of weight here and I appreciate you sharing.  

One last question, what was the long-term result in that exhibit?  Are you still collecting or are you winning the war?

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12 minutes ago, youcallmenny said:

One last question, what was the long-term result in that exhibit?  Are you still collecting or are you winning the war?

Sadly, those exhibits were taken down a few months ago due to the extensive remodel in the Visitor's Center. Lots of dust, noise and debris = bad for critters and acrylics alike! However, the long-term result was many fewer Asterinas and I never saw them eating coral tissue again. This approach removed them from 1 exhibit almost entirely (found 1 about every two months) and put the reproductive hurts on them in two other exhibits. They mostly reproduce by binary fission, which is why so many of them appear to be misshapen. The key is to keep up with the manual removal before the lights come on. I was harvesting them first thing in the morning five days a week.

They like eating the algae and biofilm on the acrylic, where it is easiest to get to and they have the best grip. It will take a while but manual removal can work.

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11 minutes ago, Exodus said:

One idea might be to buy about 6 or 7 Chocolate chip stars to keep in your sump and alternate through them cutting off a leg at a time and feeding it to the shrimp.

This was what I did when I had a Harlequin pair. Not gonna lie, I felt bad for that poor little starfish cutting off their leg every week but I loved my Harlequins. They absolutely decimated my asterina stars and I agree with IntotheMystic that they can cause damage to coral. I usually make a habit of picking out any that I see at night. It does really help control the population but doesn't completely get rid of them.  They ended up disappearing and I can only assume that they became dinner to one of the wrasses I had at the time.

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Oh and yes they will eat your brittle stars. I had them with peppermints, cleaner and fire shrimp and no issues. This was back when I had the 150 gallon. In your new tank I wouldn't think there would be an issue.

I thought it was worth it and they were just fun to watch. It made me wish I had more asterinas for them to eat because like I said I hated having to feed them a starfish leg.

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Yea I see that now.  I think I kind of lumped you in with Sid saying that 3% of the population can eat coral.  That was about the shrimp, yes?  @IntoTheMystic?  I dunno,  if they don't touch coral than I think sacrificing my brittles would be worth torching the asterina's.  I have no problem feeding them chocolate chips or rehoming with a trap in that case.

So, who has these guys in stock? 

Edited by youcallmenny
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19 minutes ago, youcallmenny said:

Yea I see that now.  I think I kind of lumped you in with Sid saying that 3% of the population can eat coral.  That was about the shrimp, yes?  @IntoTheMystic?  I dunno,  if they don't touch coral than I think sacrificing my brittles would be worth torching the asterina's.  I have no problem feeding them chocolate chips or rehoming with a trap in that case.

So, who has these guys in stock? 

I saw one in a tank at C&C this weekend but not sure if it was for sale.

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I have one that is hanging out right next to a cleaner shrimp, fire shrimp, AND a pistol/gobie combo. Wide open 150 gallon tank & it's just chillin with all the other shrimp for some reason. So I report no problems there.

They do a number on the asterinas for sure. Worth it? Definitely, IMO, and I love harlequin shrimp - the coolest small shrimp, if you ask me. Mine has pretty much cleaned one tank out. So I plan to catch it soon & move it to another tank.

They will probably eat the brittle stars, but I dunno. Seems like brittle stars might be able to fight back. I don't think the harlequin shrimp have a whole lotta fight in them. They seem to rely on a sort of hypnosis technique. :)

I have these tiny lavender asterinas that eat certain types of zoanthids, but I've never seen them eat sps. Doesn't mean they don't, of course. I find the larger white ones to be less problematic.

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The ones on my sps have red spots on them.  Who knows, there seems to be a ton of different types.  Thank you for the response, I've always found them mesmerizing animals.  I think I will attempt to source some.  

Can I keep a single one or do they do better in pairs? 

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So far, my Harlequin seems to be focusing on the Asterinas, rather than the brittle stars. The brittle stars are a bit better at hiding in the rocks, where the shrimp can't get at them. I'm not too worried about my brittle star population (for now).

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56 minutes ago, youcallmenny said:

Jeff just got back to me, sounds like I'm gunna go big a single up tomorrow.  I figure one is enough to deal with the asterina's and more manageable in the long term as far as feeding.  

Glad he was able to hook you up Greg!  Definitely worth the trip to see some of the SPS and LPS that came in recently (if you haven't already).

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Simply amazing... I'm still stunned days later by it.  I love me some baby brittles but there are so many and most of them are enormous compared to the ones I see in my system.  Thanks for sharing that, it's one of my favorite reef things I've seen in a while!  I have two large brittle stars that I purchased and have had for a long time that might be a different story but it seems like they're not a high priority food for these shrimp.  

How long has that harlequin been in there now?

Edited by youcallmenny
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