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Can water sit around?


milesmiles902

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Recently, I have been doing small 5 gallon water changes twice a week. I feel it helps the coral, although I am getting so tired of how often I make water. So, I came up with the bright idea to make it all at once and throw a heater in the bucket when ready. Now I only have to make it once a week...wait...why don't I just make 4-6 buckets of water and not have to make water every two-three weeks. Right?

 

Here is the dilemma. How long should water sit cold after it is made and still be good?

 

Using my logic, I would say for almost eternity as long as it's sealed. Although, the RODI I keep around for prolonged periods of time has the TDS go up even when the bucket is sealed. Makes me doubt saltwater lasting around.

 

In addition to the first question, how long do you let water sit around? Is it heated the whole time? Have you ever had problems from letting water sit? The majority of the time we spend on our aquariums probably has to do with the water. Someone out there has to know.

 

 

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I would keep a circulation pump going to keep it aerated. Keep a tight fitting lid on your water to prevent evaporation, since the biggest thing I would worry about is having your salinity creep up before you use it. (That's probably what is happening to your RO water TDS too.)

 

If you check the water to make sure the salinity is correct, I think you could let it sit for months with no issue.

 

I use a salt mix that mixes up almost instantly, so I make my water about 10 minutes before I use it.

 

EDIT: Now I see that you said your buckets were sealed. The only thing I can think of that would increase your RO water TDS as it sits would be leaching from the bucket into the water, evaporation, or dust settling into the water.

Edited by Lexinverts
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I think you'll have to do some research, but I remember reading that the alkalinity slowly drops over time. People routinely reported starting with around 10 and being at 7 a couple weeks later.  I think the calcium and alkalinity slowly precipitate.  Using that logic, it would seem to be more beneficial to not use any pumps as that would add heat, thereby speeding up the precipitation.

 

Again, I just remember reading some thread elsewhere and I'm pretty sure chemistry mastermind Randy chimed in agreeing to this being an issue. Please search around though to confirm.

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Well I just searched around a bit and found those threads.  It looks like Randy mentioned that it was ok to store the water if it doesn't have extra organics added to it (such as particular vitamins).  He did mention that heaters and pumps could cause precipitation and reduced alk, but he wasn't sure it was all that problematic.  According to him, he batches up Instant Ocean and uses it over the course of several weeks.

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Well I just searched around a bit and found those threads.  It looks like Randy mentioned that it was ok to store the water if it doesn't have extra organics added to it (such as particular vitamins).  He did mention that heaters and pumps could cause precipitation and reduced alk, but he wasn't sure it was all that problematic.  According to him, he batches up Instant Ocean and uses it over the course of several weeks.

I would completely agree, while I don't believe it is such an issue for the water to sit for an extended period precipitation would be my concern, the amount of alkalinity and calcium contained in the Salt mixes combined with the fact they are being contained in small volume containers like a bucket, though unlike randy I personally would think the precipitation would be worst if the compounds contained got the chance to settle opposed to having a powerhead or pump within the bucket keeping the water mixed, though I could be wrong. Either way I think the small amounts of water being kept over a couple months will show little to 0 negative effects, it wouldn't hurt to ensure the water gets stirred before using though.

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EDIT: Now I see that you said your buckets were sealed. The only thing I can think of that would increase your RO water TDS as it sits would be leaching from the bucket into the water, evaporation, or dust settling into the water.

That is what I am curious about. Maybe there was dust in the air when I sealed the bucket, some evaporated and increased my TDS? Although, if my TDS was at zero initially, there shouldn't be an increase over time with evaporation.

 

I think you'll have to do some research, but I remember reading that the alkalinity slowly drops over time. People routinely reported starting with around 10 and being at 7 a couple weeks later.  I think the calcium and alkalinity slowly precipitate.  Using that logic, it would seem to be more beneficial to not use any pumps as that would add heat, thereby speeding up the precipitation.

 

Again, I just remember reading some thread elsewhere and I'm pretty sure chemistry mastermind Randy chimed in agreeing to this being an issue. Please search around though to confirm.

 

Heat does cause an increase of precipitation, but I imagine that it wouldn't cause anymore than what already precipitated? You can tell that heat helps precipitation because the heater becomes caked over time.

 

I do think that COexchange with the atmosphere can change pH/alk at different temperatures because the solubility of gases change with temp. Especially if I am cooling the solution down and re-heating it.

 

So, I guess I'll do an experiment. Keep a few buckets around from the same initial solution and test their parameters to see if they change. I'll ultra seal them too.

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That is what I am curious about. Maybe there was dust in the air when I sealed the bucket, some evaporated and increased my TDS? Although, if my TDS was at zero initially, there shouldn't be an increase over time with evaporation.

 

 

Your TDS is probably not actually 0 at the start. It's just below the sensitivity of your TDS meter.

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Can the rise in TDS possibly be attributed to something leaching in from the container? Would that register?

 

I have a 45g Brute full of pure RODI at all times - and a 45g Brute full of mixed SW at all times. I use about 35g weekly, so I guess there's always some water that ends up sitting for longer...although I have pumps keeping things stirred once it's mixed. I've got a little brown algae growing in my SW container but otherwise, I haven't notice any ill effects. 

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Can the rise in TDS possibly be attributed to something leaching in from the container? Would that register?

 

In my freshwater experience, the tannins that leach from Indian Almond leaves raise my TDS. So, if something is leaching from an old food storage barrel, for example, it is possible. I'll bet this would only happen when you first start using it, though.

 

Will a new non-food grade plastic container leach enough stuff to raise TDS, I don't know....? It probably doesn't matter, however, since many people Brute Trash cans with no reported ill effects.

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Your TDS is probably not actually 0 at the start. It's just below the sensitivity of your TDS meter.

You are correct. My TDS meter says zero, but that probably just means 0.X where x is an integer. So, evaporation would increase the TDS in that case.

 

I mixed up my 35 gallon brute and use it over 2 weeks... so for better or worse

Was it heated and stirred?

 

My plan is to soak three of the same empty salt containers in HCl, then rinse them with RODI. I'll go make one batch and dispense it into each one. Put the lid on. Seal them with saran wrap and wallah! Oh, some before and after testing will be done. I'll check back in when the three'ish weeks are up.

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I had to take a break from doing homework, so I came up with this scheme to test if water is good after three weeks:

 

2i9l5ll.png

 

The plan is to acid wash everything for 24 hours and RODI rinse the containers when done. I'll test the parameters listed in duplicate and spread the volume into six containers. Three of which are heated for the entire time, three which are not heated and left to warm and cool to the ambient temperature of my garage. They will all be saran wrapped around the lids to prevent any exchange with the surroundings. After a week, I will pull the buckets and measure all the parameters. and do it for the other buckets as time goes by. I would do twice as many buckets for more data points, but I don't have that many buckets. So...I will stick with what I have. No need to go overboard.

 

Also, I am waiting for a new test kit before I start. My alkalinity is down to it's last few drops. Should be here in a week.

 

In addition, I was thinking about heating up the ambient buckets after I measure it's parameters. This would allow me to see if pH or Alk change with the increase of temperature after sitting for a while. Any ideas?

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I had to take a break from doing homework, so I came up with this scheme to test if water is good after three weeks:

 

2i9l5ll.png

 

The plan is to acid wash everything for 24 hours and RODI rinse the containers when done. I'll test the parameters listed in duplicate and spread the volume into six containers. Three of which are heated for the entire time, three which are not heated and left to warm and cool to the ambient temperature of my garage. They will all be saran wrapped around the lids to prevent any exchange with the surroundings. After a week, I will pull the buckets and measure all the parameters. and do it for the other buckets as time goes by. I would do twice as many buckets for more data points, but I don't have that many buckets. So...I will stick with what I have. No need to go overboard.

 

Also, I am waiting for a new test kit before I start. My alkalinity is down to it's last few drops. Should be here in a week.

 

In addition, I was thinking about heating up the ambient buckets after I measure it's parameters. This would allow me to see if pH or Alk change with the increase of temperature after sitting for a while. Any ideas?

 

Some of the alk test kits vary enough from sample to sample to mess up your experiment. I would go with Salifert for the most precision.

Edited by Lexinverts
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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello everyone,
 
I finally got around to acid washing the buckets and started the experiment.
 
Six salt buckets were acid washed in 3.7% solution of HCl for 24 hours and washed out. While waiting, I heated up RODI from an Air, Water & Ice three stage unit with a TDS of 13 (not going to lie). Tested the TDS with a HM Digital DM-1 Dual In-Line TDS meter. Heated the water up to 76° and checked using a temp gun, then raised the salinity to 1.026 with Instant Ocean: Reef Crystals. The salinity was checked by a ATC refractometer, which was calibrated with a standard 35ppt solution. The water was tested using a Salifert Alkalinity kit and Red Sea Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphate, Nitrate and pH kit. Here are the results for an out-of-the-bucket mix of Reef Crystals:

 20r07kk.jpg

 

After testing the salt mix, I transferred all the water into six buckets, three of which had heaters that were calibrated to 76°± 1°. I went and saran wrapped the buckets, but I realized who keeps their saltwater in a sealed container? So, I am likely going to open the buckets once per week to move the heater and adjust accordingly. The buckets that have no heaters are at ambient temperature to the garage, which does not fluctuate more than 15°.
 
I am actually excited to see what happens. Randy Holmes-Farley did a similar test on saltwater and concluded that alterations of water usually happen when organics are in the mix. He pointed out that he was unsure whether Reef Crystals had organics and if they are biologically active. I have a feeling that there is going to be a change for the heated buckets more than the ambient buckets.

 

Now I just need to get around to testing my own aquarium.  :happy: 

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Hello everyone,

 

I finally got around to acid washing the buckets and started the experiment.

 

Six salt buckets were acid washed in 3.7% solution of HCl for 24 hours and washed out. While waiting, I heated up RODI from an Air, Water & Ice three stage unit with a TDS of 13 (not going to lie). Tested the TDS with a HM Digital DM-1 Dual In-Line TDS meter. Heated the water up to 76° and checked using a temp gun, then raised the salinity to 1.026 with Instant Ocean: Reef Crystals. The salinity was checked by a ATC refractometer, which was calibrated with a standard 35ppt solution. The water was tested using a Salifert Alkalinity kit and Red Sea Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphate, Nitrate and pH kit. Here are the results for an out-of-the-bucket mix of Reef Crystals:

20r07kk.jpg

 

After testing the salt mix, I transferred all the water into six buckets, three of which had heaters that were calibrated to 76°± 1°. I went and saran wrapped the buckets, but I realized who keeps their saltwater in a sealed container? So, I am likely going to open the buckets once per week to move the heater and adjust accordingly. The buckets that have no heaters are at ambient temperature to the garage, which does not fluctuate more than 15°.

 

I am actually excited to see what happens. Randy Holmes-Farley did a similar test on saltwater and concluded that alterations of water usually happen when organics are in the mix. He pointed out that he was unsure whether Reef Crystals had organics and if they are biologically active. I have a feeling that there is going to be a change for the heated buckets more than the ambient buckets.

 

Now I just need to get around to testing my own aquarium. :happy:

Good work doing all this! I'm excited to see how that works out!
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  • 3 weeks later...

I am using HW Marine Reefer salt. Not sure if it's just my setup or what, but after about a week in my 32 gallon brute it smells like a skunks rear end after a recent encounter with a dog or 18 wheeler tire @ 55 mph[emoji37][emoji37]. I'd like to premix as well but this is preventing me from doing it now.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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My guess is there will be slight changes but likely not enough to cause any significant problems for water changes. I used to store salt water in plastic jugs for weeks to months when I first had a tank and was buying saltwater instead of making my own. 

 

It's great that you are setting up an experiment to find out for sure!

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I am using HW Marine Reefer salt. Not sure if it's just my setup or what, but after about a week in my 32 gallon brute it smells like a skunks rear end after a recent encounter with a dog or 18 wheeler tire @ 55 mph[emoji37][emoji37]. I'd like to premix as well but this is preventing me from doing it now.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That seem very reasonable after the results I have been getting. The last set of buckets will get pulled Wednesday and I will probably report on Thursday, but I wouldn't use Reef Crystals after two weeks, especially if it is warmed. That's what the data is at least showing. I haven't been opening the buckets either. They have been sealed the entire time and the bad things continue to rise. Hopefully the trend continues with the last set of buckets.

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Ok. So here is the averaged tabulated data for three weeks of experiment. I will let you judge the data for yourself, but I would make sure to look at trends, rather than single data values. Also remember, there is a 10% to 15% deviation of test kits, which I think caused the variation.

feosw4.png

It may have been better to make these graphical, but the scale of numbers is too drastic for either logarithm or axis breaks.

 

Here is the raw data for weeks #1,2 and 3. There was immense deviation in Magnesium tests, but most were consistent. Sometimes if I came across an outlier, I re-ran the test and commonly came to the same result. So, I began to accept what the test kit was saying. Salinity did rise slightly for the warm bucket by week #3, even with sealing them. pH stayed roughly the same.

35nbnur.png

 

After weeks of testing, I finally found how long I am comfortable with leaving my saltwater. I hope others that use Reef Crystals will utilize this data and find their comfort zone.

 

 

 

 

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