TheClark Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 This is a follow up to some research after an extension cord fire caught me off guard. Don't let this happen to you! Update your AFCI breakers or add one... Background: First off, from this link: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=61255 1) What is an arc-fault? The UL Standard for AFCIs defines an arc-fault as an unintentional arcing condition in a circuit (wiring). Arcing creates high intensity heat (may exceed 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit) resulting in burning particles that may over time ignite surrounding material such as wood framing or insulation. Samples of types of arcing that can occur: 2) What causes an arc-fault? There are a wide range of conditions that may cause arcing.Wire DegradationNatural degradation through age Humidity or heat Extended mechanical stress Extended voltage stress Physical DamageAnimals chewing through insulation Nails, tacks from construction or picture hanging driven into a wall puncturing or damaging a wire(s) Extension or power supply cord damage from sharp bends or furniture pressing on or against cords General cord damage Poor wiring or connection at devices/j-boxes Solution: Even if your home has AFCI breakers, if they are from before 2008 they won't protect against series arcs. Consider having your breakers updated, at least in the room where the aquariums are! Don't let this happen to you (I watched this plug erupt in flame after a quick jiggle...) 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Other things I personally am doing: - adding a Z-wave compatible smoke detector right above the tank wiring. With ZWave, I can use a home automation controller to text me if there is any smoke at all or even turn off all the outlet itself. - Replacing all extension cords (corrosion) - Looking into CRC for plugs/receptacles to prevent further corrosion - Tossed my slightly rusty light reflectors over fuge, replaced with cheap D120 light (splashproof and DC current) pretty much anything that might make a difference. But the big one IMO was the fact that the AFCI did not trip, I have been counting on it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Added the combination AFCI adapter this morning. Very thankful it did not trip, I have no other arc faults so far that it knows about. It looks like the are required by code after 2014. Truly believe this would have tripped, wish I could test it though other than the test button! Going to replace all of the existing AFCIs moving forward. ZWave smoke detector going in today as well by all the plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bevo5 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 So wait - I want to replace the circuit in my breaker box to an AFCI if it isn't already? I was also going to run a GFCI on the outlet going to the tank. Is that something you'd recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 GFCI to protect from shock, Combination AFCI to protect from fire. Combination AFCI (CAFCI) typically in the panel. GFCI ideally I prefer on each outlet for each device in the tank. You can do one GFCI, but they do trip. A GFCI per outlet makes that a localized event so that not everything shuts down. If your AFCI is not very new, it is probably not CAFCI. My AFCI did not trip on the serial arc, the CAFCI is supposed to. Just my opinions of course, not an expert. Sharing to spur others to research their options and be aware of the fire hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 CAFCI tripped last night around dinner time. In theory I should be happy but it is quite inconvenient to lose all power to a room. Must have an arc fault periodically happening still, oh joy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 140 dollars later, all of our AFCIs in the house are now CAFCIs. Not too hard of a job especially since father in law is an electrical engineer and a licensed electrician. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JManrow Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I agree to go with the best protection you cam afford! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Thanks John. Today we had a nuisance trip in the family room cafci, breaker diagnostics said it was an arc fault. So.... my personal jury is out on these if the nuisance trips become an issue. Heck, maybe I really do have an arc fault? Took the breakers out and double checked everything was properly and well secured, seemed good. Time will tell, just sharing for those interested... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 Nuisance trips are a thing of the past. Through process of elimination we found the sources and eliminated them. They were legit trips and perhaps in theory prevented a fire... I wish I could remember what they were though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryLimpet Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Great Thread, I just built my home and it is loaded with smoke detectors (code requirements in Clark county). So I just purchased a Leeo smart alert. It plugs into a wall outlet and listens for detectors going off, then send a text. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, HenryLimpet said: Great Thread, I just built my home and it is loaded with smoke detectors (code requirements in Clark county). So I just purchased a Leeo smart alert. It plugs into a wall outlet and listens for detectors going off, then send a text. That is cool, gotta check that out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjabeaver Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Well what circuits are they required on? My panel has only two fancy breakers and they cover they bedrooms. Sent from the bottom of the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ninjabeaver said: Well what circuits are they required on? My panel has only two fancy breakers and they cover they bedrooms. Sent from the bottom of the sea. I am sure not the right guy to ask about electrical codes.... It used to be just bedrooms if I understand right, but has slowly grown to more living spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjabeaver Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I am sure not the right guy to ask about electrical codes.... It used to be just bedrooms if I understand right, but has slowly grown to more living spaces.So I kept having one of the fancy breakers trip for no reason, my electrician friend checked it out couldn't find any reason for it, even when every switch and light was on in the house the load on that circuit was not even close to capacity. So he replaced it with a regular breaker and no problems since. He was saying that in the electrical world there are some dumb codes, and lobbying to get requirements passed that make it more expensive in the industry, paid for by the companies that produce the products nessesary to comply with the code. All that said, I really don't want any of our houses to burn down. Sent from the bottom of the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Ninjabeaver said: So I kept having one of the fancy breakers trip for no reason, my electrician friend checked it out couldn't find any reason for it, even when every switch and light was on in the house the load on that circuit was not even close to capacity. So he replaced it with a regular breaker and no problems since. He was saying that in the electrical world there are some dumb codes, and lobbying to get requirements passed that make it more expensive in the industry, paid for by the companies that produce the products nessesary to comply with the code. All that said, I really don't want any of our houses to burn down. Sent from the bottom of the sea. It's true. However that smoked extension cord was an eye opener for me. My nuisance trips were legit. Partially plugged in extension cord, Christmas lights etc. Once I chased all those down.. None since. Here is some good info on a wall installable afci (like a gfci) http://www.leviton.com/en/products/electrical-wiring-devices/arcfault-circuit-interrupters-afcis Personally I never want to have to say 'Sorry kids, daddies reef tank burnt down the house and all your toys and pets'! A little extreme but this was a big event for me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjabeaver Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 It's true. However that smoked extension cord was an eye opener for me. My nuisance trips were legit. Partially plugged in extension cord, Christmas lights etc. Once I chased all those down.. None since. Here is some good info on a wall installable afci (like a gfci)http://www.leviton.com/en/products/electrical-wiring-devices/arcfault-circuit-interrupters-afcis Personally I never want to have to say 'Sorry kids, daddies reef tank burnt down the house and all your toys and pets'! A little extreme but this was a big event for me! Ya not a good situation, I had my dj power strip burnup last year with a lot of smoke, almost forgot about that, it was corroded and salt creep and gotten into the unit. Sent from the bottom of the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 Just now, Ninjabeaver said: Ya not a good situation, I had my dj power strip burnup last year with a lot of smoke, almost forgot about that, it was corroded and salt creep and gotten into the unit. Sent from the bottom of the sea. Good point. That salt creep is fire causing stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxmonkeyboy Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I thought that Afci were only required by code for bathrooms? I built a new bathroom in my old house and I had to put an Afci breaker on it. cost me $120 back then but they are way cheaper now. good insurance for sure but they can be a major PIA. As I remember they measure the difference in current between neutral and hot and trip if there is a difference. so simply plugging things in can trip them or automated relay driving devices can also occasionally throw them... dishwasher, clothes washer, etc. people think GFCI is the gold standard and it absolutely is not. it WILL prevent you from shocking yourself when a water pump looses ground (been there). But if there is a short, water on plugs, salt creep, drive a nail through the wire in the wall, rodent eating wire in the wall... the GFCI does nothing. I am not an electrician but have done complete rewires of two separate houses and also installed a very very very complicated wiring project at my company that involved maxing out two 700 amp 3 phase power feeds. You want to get nervous about fiddling around with electricity I'll give you a tour of our facility. lol. I put huge signs on the 480 disconnects "DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT OPENING THIS". Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance164 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 3 hours ago, pdxmonkeyboy said: I thought that Afci were only required by code for bathrooms? I built a new bathroom in my old house and I had to put an Afci breaker on it. cost me $120 back then but they are way cheaper now. good insurance for sure but they can be a major PIA. As I remember they measure the difference in current between neutral and hot and trip if there is a difference. so simply plugging things in can trip them or automated relay driving devices can also occasionally throw them... dishwasher, clothes washer, etc. people think GFCI is the gold standard and it absolutely is not. it WILL prevent you from shocking yourself when a water pump looses ground (been there). But if there is a short, water on plugs, salt creep, drive a nail through the wire in the wall, rodent eating wire in the wall... the GFCI does nothing. I am not an electrician but have done complete rewires of two separate houses and also installed a very very very complicated wiring project at my company that involved maxing out two 700 amp 3 phase power feeds. You want to get nervous about fiddling around with electricity I'll give you a tour of our facility. lol. I put huge signs on the 480 disconnects "DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT OPENING THIS". Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Gfci would be for a bathroom by code requirement also code now requires afci in all dwelling units. Here's a pic of code articles faster than typing it out. I don't do alot of residential so it's not on the top of my head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClark Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 Good info @Vance164, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance164 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 minute ago, TheClark said: Good info @Vance164, thanks! No problem this is from 2014 code because I haven't tabbed my 2017 since I just got it last week but there isn't any major changes since then on the subject since afci is highlighted grey it was all new code added to that cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxmonkeyboy Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 vance.. are you a commercial electrician? Are you in Portland or Vancouver ? We need to have a good electrician on tap and are not happy with our current one. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertareef Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 17 hours ago, pdxmonkeyboy said: good insurance for sure but they can be a major PIA. As I remember they measure the difference in current between neutral and hot and trip if there is a difference. so simply plugging things in can trip them or automated relay driving devices can also occasionally throw them... dishwasher, clothes washer, etc. Interesting info. This could definitely lead to a lot of false positives but I can see the logic (from a safety protection standpoint). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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