Reef supplements: What do you use?

[Higher Thinking]

Just wondering what supplements, if any, you folks are using? General trace, iodine, iron, etc. Let's discuss some noted benefits. Thanks for the insight.

[pledosophy]

I really like the Brightwell products.

 

I use their two part. I switched to it because it contained Mg as well. While I still have to dose Mg every so often I like the consistency that dosing it with 2 part provides. For 2 part I dose 20mL daily.

 

Aquavitro Thrive- 7mL 2x a week

Redsea Reef Energy- A and B 7mL 2x a week

Contiuium aquatics -Mg as needed which is lately about 1/2 teaspoon per week (i put it in the top off water and let it drip in)

Brightwell Potassium- 1/2 tablespoon at waterchange time (I don't test for this, probably shouldn't dose it)

Vodka- 12mL once a day.

 

In the past I have tried Iodide, (i would never do Iodine IMO) but found after testing that my feeding regiment and water changes could keep it in acceptable range.

I have tried Iron when I was growing the macro alagaes, but almost any dose for that is to much IME after testing the numbers. Even in a planted tank the consumption rate is minimal IME and any dose at all would elevate above natrual sea water.

 

I have been doing a 30g a week water change and rely on that for adding trace elements, even though I know keeping them at proper levels through water change is impossible. Other then Potassium I try not to dose anything I can not test for and, general trace elements fall under this catergory for me.

 

Right now I am doing all of my dosing by hand. I have the daily dosing worked into my morning coffee routine, so it never gets missed. I have some perastalic pumps that I have run in the past, but I have not hooked them back up.

 

Glad you didn't ask what I feed, I woulda had to type this from the freezer One of everything is a pretty good description for me.

[Erica]

Not my first time seeing it used, but what is the vodka for?

[pledosophy]

I use vodka to reduce the nitrate and phosphate in my system. Since using it I have better growth and color, and I have stopped using GFO. Vodka is actually a much cheaper way to control nitrate and phosphate and there is some talk of GFO breaking down and getting caught in certain fishes gills causing health problems.

 

Dosing vodka is part of the carbon dosing method of thinking. Other ways to carbon dose include vinegar, sugar (which I used to use), and ethanol. Summed up very simply the source of carbon increases the efficiently of the set of bacteria in our system that consume nitrate and phosphate. Some were scared off at first thinking it would increase other bad bacteria populations as well but testing that I have read as well as conversations with some heavy hitters (Dr.Belli, Randy Holmes Farley)states that this is not true.

 

Depending on what you are trying to keep, some sources of carbon can be more appropriate then others. E.G. if you are trying to keep an NPS tank vinegar would be more appropriate then vodka.

[Erica]

Hmm alright. How do you dose it? I sounds like a really easy way to provide carbon, and it's really accessible (innocent) .

 

I was under the impression that (basically) nitrosomonas and nitrobacter "process" ammonia and nitrite, but the end result, nitrate, is the inevitable source that can only be removed manually or by skimming the waste that would be converted to nitrate, or just having a TON of macro algae. Is there really a bacteria that processes nitrate? If so, tell me more!

[kireek]

I use BRS 2 part and magnesium.I also dose Aqua Vitro Fuel once a week.I would like to dose it more often but it can be costly.It is a amino acid supplement. My SPS just look better when I use it,I can't explain the science behind it.At the first sign of stress I'll at some extra fuel.I like to add it after fragging corals as well.

[Blue Z Reef]

I run a Ca Rx for my balanced adds. I also add the following:

 

AcroPower

Magnesion

Vodka

Lugols

AV Fuel just started

Ferrion on occasion

Vitamin C in the form of Sodium Ascorbate (much cheaper than BW)

[pledosophy]

Acro power

What has been your impression of acro power?

How much are you dosing for your 210?

[Blue Z Reef]

What has been your impression of acro power?

How much are you dosing for your 210?

 

I'm kinda mixed on it. When I first started using it, it was amazing! Colors deepened and popped really nice. Then it seemed to not have as much impact after a while. I don't dose a ton, not sure my exact dose but my doser runs for 13 sec 3x a day lol. I think my target when I set it up was to be approx 5ml a day. Directions say 5ml per 25 gals once a week. Doing a bit under that.

 

I have read some good things about AV Fuel so I'm giving it a shot. I had good results with it the one time I tried it several years ago.

[pledosophy]

Hmm alright. How do you dose it? I sounds like a really easy way to provide carbon' date=' and it's really accessible (innocent) . [/quote']

 

Accessible in that sense seems like it would work at my house too, but the wife does not think that is a good use of her Kettle one, even though I use just over a shot a week. I go to the liquor store and buy the cheapest non flavored bottle I can find and use that.

 

To dose I use a syringe cuz it's easy to measure. I have a syringe that holds 6mL, I do two a day. I pour the vodka into a mason jar so it's easier to get the syringe in when it gets low.

 

To do carbon dosing you have to start very slowly and work your way up. Start with 1mL depending on tank size, maybe less, and then work your way up until you see nitrate and phosphate start to drop. Then your at your dosing level. There are charts online, but I started adding 1mL a day and increased by 1mL once a week until I hit target.

 

​

I was under the impression that (basically) nitrosomonas and nitrobacter "process" ammonia and nitrite, but the end result, nitrate, is the inevitable source that can only be removed manually or by skimming the waste that would be converted to nitrate, or just having a TON of macro algae. Is there really a bacteria that processes nitrate? If so, tell me more!

 

There is another part of that called anaerobic bacteria. This bacteria lives within the rock. Anerobes generally inhabit places with very low oxygen. It is very slow growing. This is why you see some reefers really covetting live rock, and why sometimes older tanks are a bit more bullet proof on the feeding. Growing this bacteria on it's own in a closed system can take many years. Anaerobic bacteria is what finishes the nitrogen cycle converting nitrate back in to 02 and releasing it from the tank.

 

Macro aglae is also good at taking in phosphate and nitrate. Different algaes consume it at different rates. Some are 20:1, some are even 50:1. Those that keep macro algae display tanks (used to be me) often use either nitrate or phosphate as a limiting factor to control growth. It is possible to have a tank full of macro algae, with a sump full of macro algae and still have a phosphate level of above 1ppm with a nitrate of zero. You can also have a nitrate of 50 with a phosphate of 0 in those tanks. So while macro is good at knocking nutrients down low, and the ecosystem method is something I really played with and believed in for a long time, IME it is not a complete method if you are trying to feed a lot and run a low nutrient system. To accomplish this goal after years of trial and error with other methods, the vodka dosing method seems to be the easiest and work the best for my tank.

 

[Erica]

Ahh! Thank you pledosophy! It's so much easier getting a straight up answer instead of scouring google with an ambiguous question. I keep calupra in my tank with the corals. It's a 28 nano cube with a RO HOB (Hood removed and LEDs added). It grows like nuts for a few months, then I rip it all out, cash in about 20 bucks store credit at my LFS, and let the leftover roots repeat the process. I've been doing this for the last year. Keeping calupra is in theory my one-two punch for keeping nitrates in check; I've never had a problem. But I can make it a one-two-three punch by adding vodka. I love it (clap)

[LadySaber]

Brightwell and Kent nano part A and B. Kent on my 3gallon and Brightwell on my 10

[Higher Thinking]

Yeah, I dose vodka as well. The online article (from RC, I think) says that you should dose .1 (point 1) ml per 25 gallons of water, per day. That's actual water volume, not just tank. So a 75 gallon usually has about 50 gallons of water, so the daily dose would be .2. Do this for one week, then increase by .5. Increase each week until n and p start dropping. Once they reach zero, cut dosing in half, that will be your regular dosing regiment. Adjust as needed.

 

[Higher Thinking]

Thanks for all the feedback. It always seems like people dose all kinds of things, but idk what is actually worth investing in.

[TheClark]

Seachem Reef Fusion 1 and 2 - 2 part

Vinegar / Kalk

Lanathum Chloride

Trying Reef Plus

 

Experimenting with various coral foods.

 

I did the MattV supplements list for quite a while,but stopped during the epic algae outbreak. It is getting under control and likely I will go back to some form of that. Will dig up his old post (pre-crash) and post it.

[Higher Thinking]

 

I'm kinda mixed on it. When I first started using it, it was amazing! Colors deepened and popped really nice. Then it seemed to not have as much impact after a while. I don't dose a ton, not sure my exact dose but my doser runs for 13 sec 3x a day lol. I think my target when I set it up was to be approx 5ml a day. Directions say 5ml per 25 gals once a week. Doing a bit under that.

 

I have read some good things about AV Fuel so I'm giving it a shot. I had good results with it the one time I tried it several years ago.

 

Hey Blue Z, when you mentioned that AcroPower didn't have the same impact, did you mean that the colors didn't keep improving or that after a while, the coral reverted back to how they were before you used it?

 

Seachem Reef Fusion 1 and 2 - 2 part

Vinegar / Kalk

Lanathum Chloride

Trying Reef Plus

 

Experimenting with various coral foods.

 

I did the MattV supplements list for quite a while,but stopped during the epic algae outbreak. It is getting under control and likely I will go back to some form of that. Will dig up his old post (pre-crash) and post it.

 

Cool, thanks Clark. I went ahead and purchased acropower based on the online reviews. Apparently it has gotten extremely positive feed back. Couple that with the fact that an 11 dollar bottle can last me four months if dosed accordingly, and I was sold.

 

 

[TheClark]

MattV's post from November 2013 (Hope this is ok to repost Matt!)

 

Very interesting, and I was following it with good results, but the algae made me stop pretty much everything until it was sorted out. Most likely I will return to something very similar to this...

 

==========

supplements I use

I have been experiencing growth and color of sps in my system over the last 7 months that have amazed me! Most of us look at our tanks multiple times a day and dont notice the daily changes. I was shocked when I was looking thru some pics to see the growth that was obtained in less than a year.

My system is aprox 350-400 gallons(sorry but I have never tried to calculate total volume) Led lighting over the display is a diy of cree 3 watt

cool white, blue, royal blue and uv. running 600 par mid tank.

I run a modified MRC skimmer that should be good for over 650 gallons, two BRS media filters for carbon and one for GFO and a large calcium reactor. I do not use a ro/di unit only a floss type prefilter, catalytic carbon filter and a large canister of DI resin. (zero waste water)

I dont do water changes (only top off) so I feel the need to add supplements to keep things healthy. My system goes through aprox 30 gallons every 14 days for top off.

my mix for 350 gallons once a week.

Amino 5mill

mag 10 mil

iodine 5 mil

vitamin C 5 mill

advanced vitamin & trace 15 mil

potassium 10 mil

My last test done with sulfert

calcium 450

Alk 8.6

phosphate 0

mag 1200

nitrate 0

I am a lazy reefer and maybe have my water tested once a month. This method works for me and if it's not broke don't fix it!

 

 

[Blue Z Reef]

 

Hey Blue Z, when you mentioned that AcroPower didn't have the same impact, did you mean that the colors didn't keep improving or that after a while, the coral reverted back to how they were before you used it

 

 

I think the big reason is a lot of people don't dose amino and rely on water changes, so the first time dosing this, the corals react dramatically. I just felt like things look good and then kind of plateaued. Some didn't change at all and some really like it. I would say it is definatley worth a try as no real negatives have been observed by me.

[Blue Z Reef]

Oh and most things maintained the colors, no revert. So that's a plus

[Higher Thinking]

 

I think the big reason is a lot of people don't dose amino and rely on water changes, so the first time dosing this, the corals react dramatically. I just felt like things look good and then kind of plateaued. Some didn't change at all and some really like it. I would say it is definatley worth a try as no real negatives have been observed by me.

 

Oh and most things maintained the colors' date=' no revert. So that's a plus[/quote']

 

Nice!! I will post some before and after photos and see if I can't detect a difference. With only a camera phone, its already hard to adequately show the colors, let alone some potential improvements, but I will give it a shot.

[pledosophy]

Ahh! Thank you pledosophy! It's so much easier getting a straight up answer instead of scouring google with an ambiguous question. I keep calupra in my tank with the corals. It's a 28 nano cube with a RO HOB (Hood removed and LEDs added). It grows like nuts for a few months' date=' then I rip it all out, cash in about 20 bucks store credit at my LFS, and let the leftover roots repeat the process. I've been doing this for the last year. Keeping calupra is in theory my one-two punch for keeping nitrates in check; I've never had a problem. But I can make it a one-two-three punch by adding vodka. I love it (clap)[/quote']

 

IMO if you are depending on caulepra for trade then I would not carbon dose.

 

Back in the day I was running a 34g planted tank that had several varieties of macro algae in it. I did carbon dose then (sugar not vodka for plants, but I don't recall why), but also fed that tank about 5 cubes of food a day. I was able to generate a couple hundred dollars a month selling the algae.

 

If you are not feeding your tank a tremendous amount, then the carbon dosing would be more likely to kill the caulepra completely, and then you would have nothing to trade in. If you really want to make money in algae you'll make more with red grape, ochotdoes, sargassum, and red ulva IME.

 

On that tank I dosed 2 part (for the codium and LPS), and Iron. I did a water change on it everytime I moved homes, which was 3 times in 4 years.

 

Here is a pic of my SW planted tank.

 

 

Yeah, I dose vodka as well. The online article (from RC, I think) says that you should dose .1 (point 1) ml per 25 gallons of water, per day. That's actual water volume, not just tank. So a 75 gallon usually has about 50 gallons of water, so the daily dose would be .2. Do this for one week, then increase by .5. Increase each week until n and p start dropping. Once they reach zero, cut dosing in half, that will be your regular dosing regiment. Adjust as needed.

 

Not such which article you read, there have been quite a few of them on various sites.

 

IMO .1ml per gallon is a pretty low place to start. I know you have to increase gradually, but that would be a very slow increase. It won't hurt anything to go that slow (assuming you don't have algae choking out your corals), so it is a safe way to do it, but that would be a very conservative method IMO, and overall I am a pretty conservative reefer about other things.

 

Randy got his tank up to 120ml per day in a 120g system before he noticed any bacterial blooms, there is a member on here who doses her tank 40mL per day in a 75g. IME I find if you pay attention to your tank, you can go a bit faster. Just back off if you get a bacterial bloom. Once you start seeing nuisance algae receeding you are almost at your ending dose level IME.

 

I never cut my dose in half after I reached my desired level either. 12mL for my system is already a pretty low point compared to most tanks. I have never had a bacterial bloom, or a cyano issue, so based on my experience it seems to be working alright.

 

JME

[TheClark]

Beautiful planted tank

[Higher Thinking]

 

IMO if you are depending on caulepra for trade then I would not carbon dose.

 

Back in the day I was running a 34g planted tank that had several varieties of macro algae in it. I did carbon dose then (sugar not vodka for plants, but I don't recall why), but also fed that tank about 5 cubes of food a day. I was able to generate a couple hundred dollars a month selling the algae.

 

If you are not feeding your tank a tremendous amount, then the carbon dosing would be more likely to kill the caulepra completely, and then you would have nothing to trade in. If you really want to make money in algae you'll make more with red grape, ochotdoes, sargassum, and red ulva IME.

 

On that tank I dosed 2 part (for the codium and LPS), and Iron. I did a water change on it everytime I moved homes, which was 3 times in 4 years.

 

Here is a pic of my SW planted tank.

 

 

 

 

Not such which article you read, there have been quite a few of them on various sites.

 

IMO .1ml per gallon is a pretty low place to start. I know you have to increase gradually, but that would be a very slow increase. It won't hurt anything to go that slow (assuming you don't have algae choking out your corals), so it is a safe way to do it, but that would be a very conservative method IMO, and overall I am a pretty conservative reefer about other things.

 

Randy got his tank up to 120ml per day in a 120g system before he noticed any bacterial blooms, there is a member on here who doses her tank 40mL per day in a 75g. IME I find if you pay attention to your tank, you can go a bit faster. Just back off if you get a bacterial bloom. Once you start seeing nuisance algae receeding you are almost at your ending dose level IME.

 

I never cut my dose in half after I reached my desired level either. 12mL for my system is already a pretty low point compared to most tanks. I have never had a bacterial bloom, or a cyano issue, so based on my experience it seems to be working alright.

 

JME

 

Wow! That is a lot more vodka than I thought people dosed. 40ml in the 75, huh? I guess it ultimately depends on the feeding and livestock amount, but dang that's a lot more than I thought.

 

This is the article I am referring to.

This seems to be the article that keeps popping up whenever someone asks how much vodka to dose. If there is a more realistic starting schedule, I'd definitely be down to find out. Thanks for the info.

[pledosophy]

I prefer the writings of Randy Holmes Farley for anything chemistry. I don't mean to discredit others, or be an elitist, but he's never steered me wrong in all the years I have been conversing with him, and he always writes me back if I have a question/problem.

 

I went back and double checked. I was off on the 120ml number, that was before he left vodka for vinegar (I blame AA). Vinegar dosing he got up to 410mL per day, which is about 2 mL per gallon for his system. At that point he started noticing the tank doing more poorly. Can you imagine how long it would take to get to a 410mL dose if you were increasing by .4mL a week? That is when you get the people stating that vodka did not help them IMO. They give up, they go onto something else.

 

I helped a guy on here with carbon dosing last year that after 9 weeks and him being at 9mL a day he gave up to try something different. A couple months later he returned to carbon dosing and found his dose to be 10mL. He was that close the last time.

 

IME on my 65g with a 30g sump I started with 1mL and increased by 1mL each week until I hit my target. Did the same thing on my current tank. On my last system which was 265g or so I started with 3mL and then increased by 1mL daily. That is the routine I followed and that is what I recommend. If you have a 50g you might wanna do that at .5mL instead of 1mL. If you have a 25g, then maybe start at .25mL

 

IMO you also really need to not be running GFO when carbon dosing. The chemical removal of the phosphate won't give the bacteria enough of what they need to grow and carbon dosing will not be effective.

 

IMO carbon dosing is more of maintenance then to fix an exsisting problem.

 

JME

[pledosophy]

Beautiful planted tank

 

Thank you very much.

 

I miss that tank sometimes. I lost most of it after a light accident, then replaced the water logged light with an LED and nothing ever did well again. It was one of the LED's from 08 ish. They didn't grow algae well. Live and learn, maybe one day I'll do another.