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Mandinga

LED SPS Pictures

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You three are such buzz killers. I still have nothing but water and rocks under mine. Upinnder has had great results with his and I hope for the same.

 

A home made fixture and an inexpensive import are two totally different fixtures. I have a lot of faith in some of the home made fixtures I have seen. Like some others have said tho, the led's just seem a little off. Really nice looking but just not quite right.

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Kim, I think you are correct...blues are too blue and the whites are too white. I believe the PAR values were more than enough to grow SPS, but there is something missing. I believe the lack of UV radiation is part of the problem.

I was using one of the popular, low cost, store bought LED's. I may try the radion, or maxspect down the road.

 

Dang, well i best keep an eye on how mine do then. I'm on week 6 with my LED fixture, and the SPS are doing really well. Even have had some browned out SPS begin growing and coloring up. Really sorry to hear about your troubles :(

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very nice the led combo your using really makes the color POP on those SPS, maybe go back to having the LEDS for blue and halides for main light?

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I was trying to figure out a way to use both the leds and halides, but LED is soooo sensitive to heat....

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Dang' date=' well i best keep an eye on how mine do then. I'm on week 6 with my LED fixture, and the SPS are doing really well. Even have had some browned out SPS begin growing and coloring up. Really sorry to hear about your troubles :([/quote']

 

Miles, I have seen plenty of SPS dominant tanks running on LED light alone. I KNOW it can be done...and I am not by any means quitting on LEDs in general...just the fixture I was using. Some of the european models are really super awesome, and have proven success. I tried to go the inexpensive route, which didnt work for me.

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I wanted to switch to LED's a few months ago, mostly for cost reduction in bulbs and bills. But after tons of researches I've learn that you have to spend about 2k for a medium sized tank nowadays, if you want to be sure to have good performances and healthy corals. This if you are not good at diy electronics and if you really know leds.

In a medium term scenario it is still making sense to me: a 48 inches dual 250w hqi plus actinics t5' will cost about $300 in bulbs per year. I don't remember the cost-per-watt that I did, but If am correct it was around $1 per day for a 600w fixture. All this to say that in a 5 years scenario buying the 2k led fixture it is pretty much the same cost as running a dual HQI plus actinics t5, not considering the cost of buying the HQI fixture.

 

I am reading a lot of threads like this, and a lot of friend's feedbacks on the same page.

I personally don't think that the cheapo led fixtures are the one and only cause of this issue. But when we are talking about a new technology, I only trust serious manufacturers that spend time testing their products, that put corals under the prototypes to see how they perform. I would never trust a manufacturer of aquarium led lights that doesn't even have a lab with a 10 gallon tank.

 

That said, the majority of the corals that we buy, trade and keep were grown or acclimated under "conventional" lighting, HQI and t5 for instance. I really think that our corals, ON AVERAGE, are not ready to be put under led's from evening to the morning. It is probably a process that will require years.

I know that the PAR readings were good... but it is not only a manner of PAR readings. I'm not saying "what did you do, Isaac????" I would have done the same. I was just lucky that I didn't pull the trigger on a tempting cute led fixture when it was the time and I ended up doing more researches :)

 

I really hope that your corals will recover soon because your cube was stunning!

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I was planing to go with led lighting on my Biocube 14. I have been doing a lot of research on the cost of the upgrade vs the cost of replacement bulbs. I found that over five years the led was slightly cheaper then the bulb cost and vs the pc 24w I am running almost neutral on power cost. Was going to replace a 24w pc with a 19w led strip from ecoxtic. How ever I will be doing some more research. Nanotunners sells a pc lamp that has a built in reflector which is sposed to cut down on wasted light because it broadcasts the light straight down or at least over 180* vs 360 from a normal flourecent light. The cost of the bulb is less then a stock replacement bulb , So I might go with these and a 6w stunner strip to accent the lighting in my tank and give things more pop. Will be following this in the future because I realy like a lot of the options available out there with led , and it seems it can only get better as we go forward =) Just my 2 cents.

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I have two of these units, in different configurations here at the shop for people to look at and consider. I also have t-5's, 250w MH, 250w HQIs, and 400w MH's running. They are in a variety of spectrums so people can really see the difference. My favorite by far are still and have been for pretty much my entire reefing career, the 400w or 250w Radiums coupled with either VHO super actinics, or double the equivilant in t-5's for actinics. The best combo in my mind would be Radiums coupled with VHO super actinics and 460nm LED strips. It think it would give you the best of all worlds(save the power bill and lamp replacement cost). That being said, I have had 90+% of the corals that I put under the LED's do pretty dang will. They look really nice, grow moderately, and the tanks they are in stay cooler. I don't think they are the best setup but for the price they are pretty decent. If I could convert half of my shop to Radiums w/VHO Super Actinics and 460nm LEDs and the other half either the AI Sol Blue units or the new Ecotech Radion units I would! That would be the sickest combination of lighting around :)

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I am sorry to hear what has happened to your corals. I also have my LEDs installed about 3 months ago. My tank has been doing quite well (hopefully). I assume your tank has been running longer and more stable than mine. This is because I am still learning how to control my calcium reactor. Like your tank, I have added a lot of SPS corals lately. I've learned that they are quite sensitive to any changes. Is it possible that other factors involved? If the light is the only reason your corals are not doing that well, how come it did not happen in the first few days? Please correct me if I say incorrectly because I am still a noobie. I am hoping your corals will recover because it sucks to see they are bleaching. It happens to me once when I moved my tank.

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I think it would be interesting to note which (if any) color of coral began to lose color. IF say all of your red and yellow or just the blue colored corals bleached or started to out maybe we could derive something of a lack of spectrum in that area. Just a theory but I believe if a coral is blue when viewed it because the xanths in it are reflecting that spectrum of the light and absorbing (feeding) off the other colors and wavelengths of the light spectrum.

 

just a theory.

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I think it would be interesting to note which (if any) color of coral began to lose color. IF say all of your red and yellow or just the blue colored corals bleached or started to out maybe we could derive something of a lack of spectrum in that area. Just a theory but I believe if a coral is blue when viewed it because the xanths in it are reflecting that spectrum of the light and absorbing (feeding) off the other colors and wavelengths of the light spectrum.

 

just a theory.

 

Thats something I would be interested in following up on can you show after photos please.

Love the cube looks great

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Hey Isaac i'm starting to see what you were talking about with the colors on corals bleaching out. Its not all corals for me, my SPS are doing great and very colorful. But my mummy eye chalice has started to look very bland, though it is growing faster than the large colony i have in my display under MH. I can see daily growth on it, but the color leaves much to be desired. I wonder if I added a 6500k T5 or something if it would help out the colors. I really love the growth under the LED, but not at the cost of color.

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I am sorry to hear that your corals did not do well under LEDs.

 

My experience with LEDs so far has been nothing but good but then every tank is like a fingerprint i.e. no two tanks are alike!!

After reading the thread I wanted to point out a few things:

 

I think quality of LEDs used in the fixture is very critical. Some of the low cost LEDs will burn out or change their spectrum as the phosphor dye (Dye that gets excited with electrical current and then emits light) may degrade over time.

Also, from my experience, LEDs are usually much brighter than Halides or T5 and corals need to be well acclimated slowly to these light using dimmer (It took me well over a month before I had mine going full blast, and that is only for 3 hr a day!!!) Also, I am not sure but gradual ramping up and down may also be necessary to prevent photo shock to the corals!

As far spectrum is concerned, I don’t think it is missing anything from the visible range in LEDs from T5s or MH. Below is a PDF link (page 6) to Cree LEDs (and Cree LEDs ONLY) that details the emission spectrum of LEDs in visible range:

 

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP-E.pdf

 

Before switching over to LEDs I was using ATI Blue special and Blue Plus T5 HO lamps. The spectrum for these is available at following link:

 

http://www.aquacave.com/ati-aquablue-special-br12000k-t5-lamps-2776.html#

 

and

 

http://www.aquacave.com/ati-blue-plus--t5-ho-braquarium-lamps-2777.html

 

You can see that nothing is really missing in the spectrum. As far UV, I seriously doubt that would have any beneficial effect except killing all microbial life in the tank!! I could be wrong (and I have been wrong more than I am right (laugh)). UV light will sure excite all the fluorescent proteins in the corals very strongly (and hence the bright colors with blue or RB LEDs) but it will not play much role in photosynthesis. More so it may photo bleach the fluorescent protein and hence the colors fade (this is of course just my opinion).

Not to digress, I have another problem! I was battling with serious hair algae problem to the point the corals got covered and started to die!! I took all the rock out and everything is sitting on the egg crates in my tank under LEDs and still have pretty good colors and polyp extensions even after 6 months!

I hope you recover from your misadventure with LEDs and don’t worry about corals! They are much stronger than us humans :). When given right conditions they revert back from stony looking rocks to colorful beings in no time. I can say that from my experience where I left some stuff in the tank that was nearly dead thinking that if nothing else, they will form some nice live rock, but they came back with bright colors!!!

Good luck to you.

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Upinder, when I stated that the lack of UV light could cause an issue with photosynthesis, this wasnt some wild hair brained guess...see the recent Coral magazine on LED lighting. They have done experiment after experiment and all the data is in there.

 

Overall though, the proof is in the pudding. My tank performed very poorly with my LED setup. After two weeks of having the halides back in action, things are gradually coloring back up and looking much better than with the LED's.

 

Poor spectrum can also play a hefty role in problem algae taking over tanks. Bad/old bulbs are often to blame, at least in part, to hair algae outbreaks.

 

I have yet to see a LED light come anywhere close to the LONG TERM performance that a halide, or T5 bulb can do.

 

Do i think LED has potential? of course...massive potential.

 

BUT, until I see a manufacturer using an LED on their own personal tanks for over 2 years, I will remain skeptical. In the meantime, you can find me in the Halide aisle at the LFS...growing sps.

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With my LED, i had a few frag plugs with hair algae, and one with bryopsis, and after almost 2 months under the LED the algae is gone. But cyano grows like crazy on the tank walls. Its very odd.

 

I agree though, I still haven't seen a successful tank using LEDs for a significant amount of time.

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Upinder, when I stated that the lack of UV light could cause an issue with photosynthesis, this wasnt some wild hair brained guess...see the recent Coral magazine on LED lighting. They have done experiment after experiment and all the data is in there.

 

Overall though, the proof is in the pudding. My tank performed very poorly with my LED setup. After two weeks of having the halides back in action, things are gradually coloring back up and looking much better than with the LED's.

 

Poor spectrum can also play a hefty role in problem algae taking over tanks. Bad/old bulbs are often to blame, at least in part, to hair algae outbreaks.

 

I have yet to see a LED light come anywhere close to the LONG TERM performance that a halide, or T5 bulb can do.

 

Do i think LED has potential? of course...massive potential.

 

BUT, until I see a manufacturer using an LED on their own personal tanks for over 2 years, I will remain skeptical. In the meantime, you can find me in the Halide aisle at the LFS...growing sps.

 

I am not challenging your idea about UV light but merely stating what is described in some of the peer reviewed journals. You can google it too (thats what I did :) )

 

one link provided here:

 

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0007995

 

Besides, from all my 14 yrs of experience as a medicinal chemist, I know UV is NOT good for any living thing, be it photosynthetic or non photosynthetic. Infact, it is used to kill unwanted life formsi.e bacterial etc. As far MH, I think they are made of a specific type of glass that prevents UV to escape from the bulb ! (I read it somewhere thats why we have to put a glass cover on DE MH Bulbs as those are NOT made from this special glass!!)

 

JMHO!!

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Thanks for that link. I am a little dizzy after reading it. Making heads or tails of the results and how they apply to aquarium husbandry was difficult/impossible for me.

Here is the Coral magazine I was referring to:

 

link

 

Here is a quote from Oceanus Lighting:

Question: Does LED emit UV radiation ?

Answer: Comparing to a Metal Halide lighting which emit UV radiation, LEDs does not produce any form of UV radiation.

 

 

AND this is from the National Lighting Research center about Metal Halide lamps:

"As pressure and temperature increase, the materials within the arc tube vaporize and emit light and ultraviolet (UV) radiation. A bulb (also called "outer jacket" or "outer envelope"), usually made of borosilicate glass, provides a stable thermal environment for the arc tube, contains an inert atmosphere that keeps the components of the arc tube from oxidizing at high temperatures, and reduces the amount of UV radiation that the lamp emits"

 

I'd like to point out that the glass reduces the amount of UV that halides emit, but it doesnt eliminate UV all together.

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Upinder, when I stated that the lack of UV light could cause an issue with photosynthesis, this wasnt some wild hair brained guess...see the recent Coral magazine on LED lighting. They have done experiment after experiment and all the data is in there.

 

Overall though, the proof is in the pudding. My tank performed very poorly with my LED setup. After two weeks of having the halides back in action, things are gradually coloring back up and looking much better than with the LED's.

 

Poor spectrum can also play a hefty role in problem algae taking over tanks. Bad/old bulbs are often to blame, at least in part, to hair algae outbreaks.

 

I have yet to see a LED light come anywhere close to the LONG TERM performance that a halide, or T5 bulb can do.

 

Do i think LED has potential? of course...massive potential.

 

BUT, until I see a manufacturer using an LED on their own personal tanks for over 2 years, I will remain skeptical. In the meantime, you can find me in the Halide aisle at the LFS...growing sps.

The guys who sell the nice DIY kits Use them over their tanks. They sell kits they claim do have a difference in color and growth. The way Im understanding this is you must use a Cree or equivelant type LED and not only that but there are different bins even for one bulb type. In their kits they refer to these as "premium"

 

They also sell what they call a " High Noon" LED that they suggest runs for 2-4 hours a day which covers a better spectrum in the growth and they are testing results on their SPS tanks ( on the internet you can claim anything) From what I am understanding the High noon LED gets the spectrum down around and under the 10k range but without that nasty yellow look. They do state to have them on 2-4 hours max.

 

Your thread falls in line with what a friend of mine was saying about LEDs as well but he was trying the high dollar units up to as late as last spring. Cree has released different bins since this time from my understanding. I was going to purchase a premium kit today but now your thread has me on the fence not knowing what to do. The other interesting thing the DIY guys were explaining to me was their use of Optics is an option but not with their premium kits, its a must, I asked if I could exclude the optics from the premium kit and they claimed this was one of their most noticeable

improvements in their sps testing other than using the top quality bins and 4 different Types of LED, they also have reds and greens they say people have added with good results, they don't use them in their setups

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