DR Tim Hovanec speaks about Biopellets and bacteria in reef aquaria

[finch6013]

Found this audio clip to be educational about bio pellets and bacteria in reef aquariums.

RC thread with link: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18826586

Audio only link: http://ia600607.us.archive.org/1/items/Mars52011-Dr.TimothyA.HovanecPellets-RemovingNitratesPhosphates/DrTim.mp3

[TheGooseWhisperer]

So i caught all the talk of biopellets being used to provide a carbon source and substrate for growing biofilm...keep the media tumbling and have it exit near the skimmer to reduce excess nitrate and phosphate. all makes easy-peasey sense...

 

However he kinda sounds anti-skimming and talks alot about bacteria in the water column feeding the corals and how our tanks have way less bacteria than natural reefs. oh and his army of fraggers coloring up corals too.

 

So is he promoting biopellets or just trying to provide info on a popular product while his own personal belief is different (promote bacteria in the water column and skim less). The 2 ideas seem opposed to me and i kinda missed the point of why he's giving a discussion on the pellets.

 

Whats the probiotic product he is talking about ("Waste Away" or something like that. Is it intended as a feeding system, color enhancer, NP reducer?

 

Thanks for posting this!

[finch6013]

If you watch the entire segment (its long I know) He explains the theory and use of bio pellets pretty simple. He uses this as a foundation to explain what type of bacteria is grown with this method and how it is not a great source of food for the coral, but it does a better job of N/P reducing than the free floating bacteria that the coral eat. From what I took of the segment is that both are needed. The skimming thing was just that he believes many of us try to overskim the tank. And I tend to agree to a certain point. A lot of what a skimmer removes is good but its still needed to remove the bad. The product he promotes in the end is just his bio product that is suppose to be a bacteria food for the coral that is in the water column, not growing on the substrate and rock. From my personal experience with biopellets, I agree.

 

When I was using biopellets on an sps tank, I had good reduction in N and P and great color/growth. After a few more months Nitrate was undetectable with a good test kit and Phosphate was down to .003 with a low range hanna meter. At this point color loss began and growth slowed a lot. I started dosing bacteria along with amino acids similar to what Dr Tim is talking about in the last part of the segment, and within a few weeks color and growth where getting better. I then got fed the fish a lot more adding more phosphate to the point of about .03 and color was even better again.

My experiences are similar to what I thought Tim was trying to say. At least what I got from it.

 

To further that experience I had a sps 34g solana a few years ago that I carbon dosed and bacteria dosed. With amino acids as a food source for coral and the bacteria with great results. I never carbon dosed enough to get the phosphate below .04 because the results were good. I think our battle for all zero's and crazy skimming does more harm than good if you are not observant enough to add the right foods for the coral.

 

I have seen several tanks on RC where they claim to have perfect parameters and all zeros only to see a bleached out looking tank.

[TheGooseWhisperer]

I had always mistakenly believed that corals were surviving on larger food like phyto, pods, etc and light that we are intentionally adding to our tanks. I thought the only thing N and P were doing was fueling algae growth...hence the quest for all zeros. I've gone back and listened again and finished it this time (toddler was begging me to go outside the first time, so I was pretty distracted). The biology is of course more complicated that I used to believe and it makes a ton of sense. Stupidly I had never considered what out "biological filtration" was living off...clearly it needs more than just ammonia and nitrite.

 

So in an ideal world you could not skim, bacteria in the water column would consume N and P and your corals would then eat them...why couldnt it just be that easy?!? :p On the topic of "overskimming" it seems much too fine of a line to just skim some all the time. I feel more comfortable with the idea of having a strong skimmer and being off or on with it for set times..flip it off and let benfitial materials and waste build up, get some benefits and then turn it back on to clear out the built up gunk. Even if you get a baseline skimming dialed in their will be fluctuations with feeding/nutrients. I figure you might as well make the fluctuations (ie skimmer on and off) on purpose and see if you can spend the most time in the sweet spot of not overskimming all the good stuff out and not getting algae growth.

 

Ive been wanting to get rid of my skimmer all together, but this has me wanting to keepit again...just not using it as much.

[finch6013]

I defiantly wont be changing my skimmer, or the amount I run it unless my system actually showed signs of being sterile. Tim is not the only one to talk about the need for some N and P in our tanks, and the relationship bacteria play. Its been noted by several regarded sources as well as hobbyists with amazing tanks. I kind of caught wind of something Tim started to talk about but then didn't say much. He said that people are taking his bacteria and growing it in containers with amino acids or a carbon source and then dosing that to the tank. If what he briefly said is true, then one could buy some of his or another magical bacteria and grow it themselves alleviating the need to buy more. Maybe that is why he didn't go into detail about it.

I'm using Biopellets now and I still have mixed feelings about them over vodka dosing just because I think there is less control with pellets.

[TheGooseWhisperer]

I kind of caught wind of something Tim started to talk about but then didn't say much. He said that people are taking his bacteria and growing it in containers with amino acids or a carbon source and then dosing that to the tank. If what he briefly said is true' date=' then one could buy some of his or another magical bacteria and grow it themselves alleviating the need to buy more. Maybe that is why he didn't go into detail about it.[/quote']

 

I agree that soluble carbon dosing (vinager, sugar, vodka) seems easier that biopellets. With the pellets its critical to avoid oxygen depletion in the media and that just isnt foolproof. I feel like the carbon source will not have access to oxygen depleted environments so you dont run that risk with vodka.

 

Growing bacteria souns interesting and risky too. With phyto and rotifers its pretty easy to tell what is in your culture. Bacteria could be problematic if you get contamination that is capable of out competing the strain that you want to be growing. I would feel most comfortable with batch culturing from a trusted started source. One kinda out there idea though would be to inoculate a culture with your skimmate. I wonder if you could even feed the culture with your waste water (if N and P are on the high side in your system)? I really wish I still worked in a lab now...all the access to microscopes, culturing equipment, cenrifuges etc. This is way more interesting than brewing some beer on the side in the lab closet and hoping lab safety didnt spring a surprise inspection:p

 

One question for vodka dosing pros. If N and P are not high it souns like vodka dosing could actually do harm by pushing you towards a sterile system...or is there possibly a ""feeding coral" bonus to a smidgen of dosing?

[Bicyclebill]

Wow, very informative original audio clip and debate by the two of you as well. I've been toying with going the biopellet method, mostly because the daily chore of vodka dosing would get missed too often by me through the summer months.